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Old 10-13-2004, 06:13 PM   #16
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It's really interesting to me that people who believe an embryo is just an embryo (as I do) are the minority in the abortion thread.

Or you were just smarter than I was, and simply stayed away.
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Old 10-13-2004, 07:52 PM   #17
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I think it is totally criminal that we're not allowing full embryonic stem cell research. There is a plethora of diseases it could possibly cure, including but not limited to spinal cord injury, parkinson's, alzheimer's, some forms of cancers, possibly even AIDs. Is it proven that any of these things can or will be cured as a result of embryonic stem cell research? No. But is it proven that the possibility of it exists? Yes. If you truly want proof that embryonic stem cells either can or cannot lead to cures for the aforementioned diseases among others, then you should know that if research can't be conducted on the subject, then we'll never have proof one way or another. You can't have it both ways. You just can't. We owe it to humanity to find out if we can develop cures for these diseases with these cells. If it's a choice between letting these cells freeze until they're unusable, or using them to research medical advances that could give someone the ability to walk, control their movements, think(alzheimer's), live without cancer, etc etc, I choose the latter.
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Old 10-13-2004, 09:57 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond


I don't think embrionic stems can help these ppl as much as adult stem cells.
And in my professional scientific opinion, you are wrong.

And most of the scientific community would agree.

And quoting MDs is weak. MDs are not research scientists and unless they have an accompanying PhD in the field, they know no more about the subject than an undergraduate biology student.

Frankly, the main problem with this issue is that the people fired up most about it are completely uneducated when it comes to what stem cells are, what cloning is, what undergoing selection means, what differentiation is, what terminal differentiation is, the difficulties of growing stem cells in culture and the fact it is impossible to keep lines going indefinitely (they have a defined lifespan, beyond which they are no longer considered pluripotent). This is a question of high academia, and it's not about being elitist or implying people are stupid, but it's something that you need many years of advanced (beyond a bachelor's degree) education or hands on experience to understand. Yet the people who crow about this to the heavens have never seen a stem cell under the microscope, have not an iota of practical knowledge about it, don't know how to culture it, don't know what it really does and how, etc.

Then what you hear is "morality" as a defense for ignorance.
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Old 10-13-2004, 11:27 PM   #19
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I think more research needs to be done to fully understand the promise of stem cells of any kind. It's possible that both adult and embryonic stem cells can be useful, perhaps for different therapies. But research is vital...otherwise we will never know.
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Old 10-13-2004, 11:36 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by AvsGirl41


Or you were just smarter than I was, and simply stayed away.
"A mother is killing her baby"
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Old 10-13-2004, 11:39 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram


And in my professional scientific opinion, you are wrong.

And most of the scientific community would agree.

And quoting MDs is weak. MDs are not research scientists and unless they have an accompanying PhD in the field, they know no more about the subject than an undergraduate biology student.

Frankly, the main problem with this issue is that the people fired up most about it are completely uneducated when it comes to what stem cells are, what cloning is, what undergoing selection means, what differentiation is, what terminal differentiation is, the difficulties of growing stem cells in culture and the fact it is impossible to keep lines going indefinitely (they have a defined lifespan, beyond which they are no longer considered pluripotent). This is a question of high academia, and it's not about being elitist or implying people are stupid, but it's something that you need many years of advanced (beyond a bachelor's degree) education or hands on experience to understand. Yet the people who crow about this to the heavens have never seen a stem cell under the microscope, have not an iota of practical knowledge about it, don't know how to culture it, don't know what it really does and how, etc.

Then what you hear is "morality" as a defense for ignorance.





religion + emotions = silly arguments and bad science
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Old 10-14-2004, 12:07 AM   #22
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This might only be Australia, but I was under the impression the only embryonic stem cells currently being used in research projects are those which are destined for being destroyed anyway.

The opposition to this research is completely beyond me.
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Old 10-14-2004, 12:15 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep

"A mother is killing her baby"
Ok.

I don't really get how *that* line of my post said that, but all right.

My point was that a few threads away, you have people arguing embryos (exactly as we are describing here, if I understand them correctly) are a fully conscious lifeform, but here we have people saying the exact opposite. It's very interesting.
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Old 10-14-2004, 12:17 AM   #24
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We all know Nancy Reagan is a bloody child killer!

They need to take a skin cell from some one with parkinsons

Clone it to embryonic stem cell

Then do worthwhile research

What genes affect parkinsons


This can work
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Old 10-14-2004, 12:20 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by AvsGirl41


Ok.


you did not see my next post?

religion + emotions = silly arguments and bad science
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Old 10-14-2004, 12:25 AM   #26
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I did, but I didn't connect the two. My bad--I guess that means its bedtime.

Carry on then.
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Old 10-14-2004, 12:28 AM   #27
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it is bed time for me too

fluff up the pillows and don't save the bath water
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Old 10-14-2004, 12:34 AM   #28
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Re: We all know Nancy Reagan is a bloody child killer!

Quote:
Originally posted by deep
They need to take a skin cell from some one with parkinsons

Clone it to embryonic stem cell

Then do worthwhile research

What genes affect parkinsons


This can work
True. I asked my endocrinologist once about how likely stem cell research was to be an option. He laughed and said ignore the debate. When it is mastered and finally legal, I'd most likely be donating one of my fat cells to cure my condition.

Lucky I have plenty of fat cells to spare...
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Old 10-14-2004, 12:49 AM   #29
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Adult stem cell research has been beneficial, and yes, we've seen real results. But adult stem cells are limited in what can be treated with them. As far as I know, adult stem cells can only be used in bone marrow replacement and one or two other conditions.

While no real cures have been developed from embryonic stem cells, it is widely believed that the potential is there to cure parkinson's, alzheimer's, spinal cord injury. One embryonic stem cell can give rise to ANY kind of tissue. The same cannot be said about adult stem cells. This is what some people have failed to understand.

Kerry explained that there are more than 100,000 embryos frozen at fertility clinics, many of which will be destroyed. It makes no sense not to take those embryos and use them for the benefit of those who are suffering.

About 100 years ago, doctors were ridiculing the researcher who wanted to vaccinate people against a disease by exposing them to that disease. Now smallpox, polio, and a handful of diseases are history. My point is: no good will ever come out of embryo stem cells unless we actively search for it. I hope this answers the question.
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Old 10-14-2004, 03:44 AM   #30
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When you consider that abortion, essentially the destruction of an embryo, is legal I truly don't find it hard to support the cause of Stem cell research. Now, I think that both, adult and embryonic have benefits, though I do believe that adult stem cell research has provided more helpful and conclusive research and progress. However, there are limitations. And when limitations are present in a scientific exploration, Time becomes a difficult factor.

I whole-heartedly believe that research is the way forward to ending cases and tragedies just like the one we saw on the 10th of October. Now, I do not agree with abortion. Not as simply a way of birth control. It serves absolutely no purpose, and the moral implications are dubious, at best.

Are moral implications not dubious in the discussed research? Of course they are. I am the first to admit that in reality we do not know what on Earth we are doing to the embryo. We will never know exactly what the embryo goes through in the process of this research, no more than we know exactly what it goes through an abortion. The difference here is that this research is vital, and I do believe it is, for further scientific advancement. I do believe that it is worth it.

In a society where you do allow abortion anyway, why not put such a phenomenon, the tampering with embryos, to a good

Ant.use?
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