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Old 11-05-2004, 06:00 AM   #136
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Intelligence is independant of morality, and morality is debatable.
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Old 11-05-2004, 06:33 AM   #137
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independent.
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Old 11-05-2004, 06:42 AM   #138
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Originally posted by diamond
independent.
Troll troll troll your boat...

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Old 11-05-2004, 06:52 AM   #139
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Originally posted by U2Kitten



BIG difference. Men just whack in a jar, and get their jollies doing it.


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Old 11-05-2004, 06:52 AM   #140
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Quote:
Originally posted by DrTeeth


Troll troll troll your boat...

Dr Teeth,
Actually A_Wanderer and I have a great relationship, so please do not jump to any conclusions.

He's perfectly capable of speaking for himself.

Back to the topic.-

I have members of my family that have been saddled with Muscular Dystophy in one form or another.
It's a shitty deal. My father had it.
I was lucky enough not to have been saddled w/it.

So ANY medical research for cures, I'm all over it.
I remember as a young boy, my father was flown back to NIH many many times so resarchers could work w/him and on him..
I didn't want him to go into a wheel chair but eventually he had to. It made me very sad
I'm all for positive medical resarch that brings positive results.



Along those lines I came across something a while back.
Charles K. a nationally renowned commentator,writer, and Medical Dr and makes interesting points on stem cells and e stem cell research and the differences between real progress and the hype.

Here are his words-




WASHINGTON -- After the second presidential debate, in which John Kerry used the word ``plan" 24 times, I said on television that Kerry has a plan for everything except curing psoriasis. I should have known there is no parodying Kerry's pandering. It turned out days later that the Kerry campaign has a plan -- nay, a promise -- to cure paralysis. What is the plan? Vote for Kerry.

I'm not making this up. I couldn't. This is John Edwards on Monday at a rally in Newton, Iowa: ``If we do the work that we can do in this country, the work that we will do when John Kerry is president, people like Christopher Reeve are going to walk, get up out of that wheelchair and walk again.''

In my 25 years in Washington, I have never seen a more loathsome display of demagoguery. Hope is good. False hope is bad. Deliberately raising for personal gain false hope in the catastrophically afflicted is despicable.

Where does one begin to deconstruct this outrage?

First, the inability of the human spinal cord to regenerate is one of the great mysteries of biology. The answer is not remotely around the corner. It could take a generation to unravel. To imply, as Edwards did, that it is imminent if only you elect the right politicians is scandalous.

Second, if the cure for spinal cord injury comes, we have no idea where it will come from. There are many lines of inquiry. Stem cell research is just one of many possibilities, and a very speculative one at that. For 30 years I have heard promises of miracle cures for paralysis (including my own, suffered as a medical student). The last fad, fetal tissue transplants, was thought to be a sure thing. Nothing came of it.

As a doctor by training, I've known better than to believe the hype -- and have tried in my own counseling of the newly spinal-cord injured to place the possibility of cure in abeyance. I advise instead to concentrate on making a life (and a very good life it can be) with the hand one is dealt. The greatest enemy of this advice has been the snake-oil salesmen promising a miracle around the corner. I never expected a candidate for vice president to be one of them.

Third, the implication that Christopher Reeve was prevented from getting out of his wheelchair by the Bush stem cell policies is a travesty.

Bush is the first president to approve federal funding for stem cell research. There are 22 lines of stem cells now available, up from one just two years ago. As Dr. Leon Kass, head of the President's Council on Bioethics, has written, there are 3,500 shipments of stem cells waiting for anybody who wants them.

Edwards and Kerry constantly talk of a Bush ``ban'' on stem cell research. This is false. There is no ban. You want to study stem cells? You get them from the companies that have the cells and apply to the National Institutes of Health for the federal funding.

In his Aug. 7 radio address to the nation, John Kerry referred not once but four times to the ``ban'' on stem cell research instituted by Bush. At the time, Christopher Reeve was alive, so not available for posthumous exploitation. But Ronald Reagan was available, having recently died of Alzheimer's.

So what does Kerry do? He begins his radio address with the disgraceful claim that the stem cell ``ban'' is standing in the way of an Alzheimer's cure.

This is an outright lie. The President's Council on Bioethics, on which I sit, had one of the world's foremost experts on Alzheimer's, Dr. Dennis Selkoe from Harvard, give us a lecture on the newest and most promising approaches to solving the Alzheimer's mystery. Selkoe reported remarkable progress in biochemically clearing the ``plaque'' deposits in the brain that lead to Alzheimer's. He ended his presentation without the phrase ``stem cells'' having crossed his lips.

So much for the miracle cure. Ronald D.G. McKay, a stem cell researcher at NIH, has admitted publicly that stem cells as an Alzheimer's cure are a fiction, but that ``people need a fairy tale.'' Kerry and Edwards certainly do. They are shamelessly exploiting this fairy tale, having no doubt been told by their pollsters that stem cells play well politically for them.

Politicians have long promised a chicken in every pot. It is part of the game. It is one thing to promise ethanol subsidies here, dairy price controls there. But to exploit the desperate hopes of desperate people with the promise of Christ-like cures is beyond the pale.

There is no apologizing for Edwards' remark. It is too revealing. There is absolutely nothing the man will not say to get elected.


In closing Im all for medical research as long as it it is morally and ethically responsible and set within parameters.

Peace,
db9
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Old 11-07-2004, 11:09 AM   #141
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There's a big difference between donating a few eggs to an infertile friend or family member and selling them large scale on the black market for scientific research.
I've never heard the radio ads mentioning friends or family members. The ads are for strangers to donate/sell eggs to strangers.

Just type "egg donation" into Google. It's already going on, on a fairly large scale. The women selling them are mostly college students. So far without the medieval visions you imagine. (And college girls are some of the most careless in regards to their health.)

Am I endorsing it? No. But I find the grim pictures being painted as a bit extreme, to say the least.
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Old 11-07-2004, 11:13 AM   #142
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Originally posted by AvsGirl41


I've never heard the radio ads mentioning friends or family members. The ads are for strangers to donate/sell eggs to strangers.

Just type "egg donation" into Google. It's already going on, on a fairly large scale. The women selling them are mostly college students.
The people I know used family members to keep the genetics the same. While what you say may well be true, it would be on a much larger and more dangerous scale if stem cell research became a big thing. Where would all those embryos come from? From the egg donations of poor women, and maybe struggling college students, needing money, and the hormones and surgical procedures to keep harvesting eggs could not be good for their long term health. Again, no big deal for a guy, but it is for a female.
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Old 11-07-2004, 01:08 PM   #143
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damn

i coulda been a millionaire by now
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Old 11-09-2004, 07:03 AM   #144
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damn

i coulda been a millionaire by now
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA this is the funniest post I've read, on this site in a loooooong time
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Old 11-29-2004, 11:39 AM   #145
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The real deal, adult stem cells are more promising than embrionic stem cells: :


Sunday November 28, 1:21 PM
Paralyzed woman walks again after stem cell therapy
ADVERTISEMENT



AFP Photo


A South Korean woman paralyzed for 20 years is walking again after scientists say they repaired her damaged spine using stem cells derived from umbilical cord blood.

Hwang Mi-Soon, 37, had been bedridden since damaging her back in an accident two decades ago.

Last week her eyes glistened with tears as she walked again with the help of a walking frame at a press conference where South Korea researchers went public for the first time with the results of their stem-cell therapy.

They said it was the world's first published case in which a patient with spinal cord injuries had been successfully treated with stem cells from umbilical cord blood.

Though they cautioned that more research was needed and verification from international experts was required, the South Korean researchers said Hwang's case could signal a leap forward in the treatment of spinal cord injuries.

The use of stem cells from cord blood could also point to a way to side-step the ethical dispute over the controversial use of embryos in embryonic stem-cell research.

"We have glimpsed at a silver lining over the horizon," said Song Chang-Hoon, a member of the research team and a professor at Chosun University's medical school in the southwestern city of Kwangju.

"We were all surprised at the fast improvements in the patient."

Under TV lights and flashing cameras, Hwang stood up from her wheelchair and shuffled forward and back a few paces with the help of the frame at the press conference here on Thursday.

"This is already a miracle for me," she said. "I never dreamed of getting to my feet again."

Medical research has shown stem cells can develop into replacement cells for damaged organs or body parts. Unlocking that potential could see cures for diseases that are at present incurable, or even see the body generate new organs to replace damaged or failing ones.

So-called "multipotent" stem cells -- those found in cord blood -- are capable of forming a limited number of specialised cell types, unlike the more versatile "undifferentiated" cells that are derived from embroyos.

However, these stem cells isolated from umbilical cord blood have emerged as an ethical and safe alternative to embryonic stem cells.

Clinical trials with embryonic stem cells are believed to be years away because of the risks and ethical problems involved in the production of embryos -- regarded as living humans by some people -- for scientific use.

In contrast, there is no ethical dimension when stem cells from umbilical cord blood are obtained, according to researchers.

Additionally, umbilical cord blood stem cells trigger little immune response in the recipient as embryonic stem cells have a tendency to form tumors when injected into animals or human beings.

For the therapy, multipotent stem cells were isolated from umbilical cord blood, which had been frozen immediately after the birth of a baby and cultured for a period of time.

Then these cells were directly injected to the damaged part of the spinal cord.

"Technical difficulties exist in isolating stem cells from frozen umbilical cord blood, finding cells with genes matching those of the recipient and selecting the right place of the body to deliver the cells," said Han Hoon, president of Histostem, a government-backed umbilical cord blood bank in Seoul.

Han teamed up with Song and other experts for the experiment.

They say that more experiments are required to verify the outcome of the landmark therapy.

"It is just one case and we need more experiments, more data," said Oh Il-Hoon, another researcher.

"I believe experts in other countries have been conducting similar experiments and accumulating data before making the results public

The real deal, adult stem cells are more promising than embrionic stem cells:
stem cells from umbilical cord blood.
So-called "multipotent" stem cells -- those found in cord blood -- are capable of forming a limited number of specialised cell types, unlike the more versatile "undifferentiated" cells that are derived from embroyos.
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Old 11-29-2004, 05:35 PM   #146
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Originally posted by diamond

So-called "multipotent" stem cells -- those found in cord blood -- are capable of forming a limited number of specialised cell types, unlike the more versatile "undifferentiated" cells that are derived from embroyos.
I presume you read this part since you bolded it.
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Old 11-29-2004, 07:32 PM   #147
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anitram,
im sitting here w/baited breath..waiting for some postive results from embrionic stem cell research.

please post what ever findings you have.

thx,
db9
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Old 11-29-2004, 07:57 PM   #148
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How many articles would you like? 100? And with an emphasis on what?

I cannot provide you with the full article as you are not a member of a research lab and therefore I'm assuming you do not have paid access to the NCBI's PubMed. If you are really interested in reading primary literature, I could probably e-mail you PDF files of select things you want. Go on over to PubMed and do a search.

Newest published primary paper on ESC research, published in Nature. You will find that Nature and Cell are the two most respected scientific journals, and the most difficult places to get published. This is the scientific cream of the crop. Here is an abstract:

Quote:
Heart disease is a leading cause of death in newborn children and in adults. Efforts to promote cardiac repair through the use of stem cells hold promise but typically involve isolation and introduction of progenitor cells. Here, we show that the G-actin sequestering peptide thymosin beta4 promotes myocardial and endothelial cell migration in the embryonic heart and retains this property in postnatal cardiomyocytes. Survival of embryonic and postnatal cardiomyocytes in culture was also enhanced by thymosin beta4. We found that thymosin beta4 formed a functional complex with PINCH and integrin-linked kinase (ILK), resulting in activation of the survival kinase Akt (also known as protein kinase B). After coronary artery ligation in mice, thymosin beta4 treatment resulted in upregulation of ILK and Akt activity in the heart, enhanced early myocyte survival and improved cardiac function. These findings suggest that thymosin beta4 promotes cardiomyocyte migration, survival and repair and the pathway it regulates may be a new therapeutic target in the setting of acute myocardial damage.

REF:

Nature. 2004 Nov 25;432(7016):466-472.
Let me know if you want to know more on it, I could pull the whole thing up for you.
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