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Old 01-21-2004, 04:49 AM   #16
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Re: I hope Bush comes out swinging tonight

Quote:
Originally posted by U2LipstickBoy

I also hope Bush outlines the second part of the Patriot Act, as there are far too many people coming to America from certain parts of the world and they're coming here to do damage. We've seen that with the first Patriot Act, everything from tracking kidnappers to finding out more information about terrorists has been accomplished with this revolutionary Act, that was co-written by the lawyer John Edwards.
Umm, is any of this serious? Its not sarcastic is it? It's hard to tell.
You know, looking from outside the US, the Patriot Act looks damn scary.

If the Patriot Act was attempted in this country, the Prime Minister who tried would be out on the street before he finished reading the introduction to it. He would be voted out so quick his head would be spinning. In fact he did try to put a bill through that was about 5% of the Patriot Act, under the same bullshit cover of terrorism, and it was blown out of parliament, couldn't get it passed, and if he tries even a further watered down version it will become one of THE election issues later this year (we have an election this year as well) and it's already considered as an issue he simply can't win. We're not stupid enough to give a government that kind of power, written in law. It doesn't have to be about whether or not the government who brings it in is going to abuse it (although it sounds like your buddy Ashcroft seriously is) it's more about the fact that it's there, in law, for anyone else to abuse whenever they feel like it later on when everyone has forgotten that it's there.

I honestly can't believe it's not THE issue in this US election. I find it strange that the people in the US who rave the most about rights and freedom (conservative ideologicaly, and Republican politicaly), are the same people who support the people who are putting something like this through, which is essentially tearing those beliefs up and throwing them out the window. Those people are making a mockery of themselves. They don't want their guns to be registered, but the government, without telling you and without needing any permision, can read everything your credit card does, everything you do on the net, search your house, and even check out what you are borrowing from a library - all without you having a clue that it's being done - and those same people are cool with that?

This Patriot Act II, is that a new version, or an extension?

Quote:

as there are far too many people coming to America from certain parts of the world and they're coming here to do damage.
That, buddy, is one of the most staggeringly terrible things I have ever read in here. YOUR way of thinking is contributing lightyears more to the problems the world is having then 99.99999999999% of the immigrants that arrive in your country.

You are an ignorant, small minded.. I'll leave it there.
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Old 01-21-2004, 07:10 AM   #17
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"Our nation must defend the sanctity of marriage"

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Old 01-21-2004, 07:13 AM   #18
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While I agree with the concept that our professional sports need to ban steroids outright....the President got it wrong.

Athletes today are no different from the athletes of yesterday. The athletes of yesterday were human beings with character flaws and they too would do anything to win and many would be out partying and having a good time getting into trouble.

The difference is, today, we live in a world in which this stuff sells HEADLINES. The athletes of yesterday were insultated.

Parents need to, ESPECIALLY DADS, need to be better role models period. I say especially DADS because that is where I see the most pain and suffering having been in education now for 9 years.
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Old 01-21-2004, 08:20 AM   #19
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I didn't watch it, and the only reason I'm upset over that is that I missed Tom Brady

I think heterosexuals in this country need to start "defending the sanctity of marriage" by taking it seriously.

I don't know of any President who ever talked about steroids in the SOTU address before
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Old 01-21-2004, 08:59 AM   #20
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Yeah, Mrs. S. that was strange. Like he's grasping at stuff that will sound good and ppl really can't disagree with. Same with the halfway houses and job training for inmates and such. Um, don't we already DO that and didn't republicans pretty much oppose it?

What was missing was terrible!

-no Israel/Palestine? How are we going to win the war on terror without resolving this conflict???

-no Mars?

-not ONE WORD about Africa????

In sum,

SD
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Old 01-21-2004, 09:44 AM   #21
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I watched the whole thing and I'd really like those brain cells back.
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Old 01-21-2004, 09:52 AM   #22
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Great speech

It was a great speech and a good way to kick off his side of the election year. He showed how the Patriot Act is working, and who it has helped capture. He spoke about having to pass an Amendment if states didn't uphold the sanctity of marriage, that was great to see. Bush also mentioned how he will continue to keep the government out of managing healthcare, another correct decision by him. Last night's speech shows why he is still ahead in all the public polls, he is a true leader. Let's hope that his State of the Union address next year is even more captivating and patriotic, from fighting for human rights overseas to upholding the institution of marriage at home, this man knows how to lead America.
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Old 01-21-2004, 09:55 AM   #23
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Quote:
I watched the whole thing and I'd really like those brain cells back
Me Too!!! The only part I really really enjoyed was the part about him telling the young girl soemthng to the effect ( to paraphrase) when you seen a man or women in uniform on the street tell them thanks..
The whole thing sounded like filler and I think to much concentrated on the war and not even on the right parts.. funny how he didnt mention th HIV/AIDS or Millenium Development Goals ( or did he , I might have missed it)

Being Canadian and honestly never a big believer in George W. Bush ... although I respect the fact he has a tough job and I wouldnt have to make the decisions he does . I was even more dissapointed then I thought possible .. it quit frightened me in some aspects his speech..
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Old 01-21-2004, 10:07 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
Can you name which requirements and resolutions that SADDAM complied with? Did SADDAM verifiably disarm as required when UN inspector were in Iraq in 2002/2003? Do you know when Saddam was required per a Ceacefire agreement to verifiably disarm? Has any leader in the world been given more time than Saddam to verifiably disarm once it was required of them?


I know you can answer all of this. You've done it 1000 times here, and, really, no answer that I could give here will satisfy you, so let's move on...

Quote:
Why should the UN exist and pass resolutions if it is unwilling or unable to enforce them, especially the most serious resolutions that authorized the use of military force as a means of enforcement. Ever hear of the League of Nations? Is that what we want for the future of the United Nations?
"Irrelevance" isn't what you or Bush fear for the United Nations. "Irrelevance" is what you or Bush fear for the United States. By demanding UN weapons inspectors, and, once you get them, to have the US decide that they have done no good, then what was the point of the UN getting involved at all? To be a rubber stamp for a larger agenda? That little act has made the UN more irrelevant than anything else Bush could have done. I'm not terribly surprised, however.

Quote:
I suppose some think that a dictator that has: invaded and attacked 4 countries over the past 20 years, spent more of his countries GDP as a percentage, on WMD, than any country in history, used WMD more times than any country in history, murdered over 1.7 million people, threatened the planets energy supplies with destruction or theft and for that matter the entire planets economy and way of life, : is not such a threat and should be continued to be talked with while he prepares for his next move. How bad could his next move be, Right? Far better to risk global security, the Global Economy, the lives of thousands of people, the relevancy of the UN, while having Green Tea with this Thug to discuss the issues, Right?
You know, STING, I agree with you on this. Saddam is an terrible guy, and there is no love lost. In fact, this looks like a speech that Clinton could have made and gotten the whole world to agree to topple him. So why didn't Bush make this speech? He didn't, though. He focused on WMDs that he said the UN weapons inspectors were too stupid to find, and now even we can't find them. The fact remains that Bush did not officially topple Saddam on any of these points you mention except one: WMDs. And the way he advocated such a case was on the basis of faulty intelligence. It was our faith-based war: Bush knew the end that he wanted (toppling Saddam). It was only a matter of inventing a reason, and, as Wolfowitz once said with a Dean-like zeal, WMDs were a reason "that we could all agree upon."

Melon
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Old 01-21-2004, 10:12 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by DrTeeth
"Our nation must defend the sanctity of marriage"

$1.5 billion isn't going to stop Britney and her childhood pal-of-the-week from getting married and divorced. $1.5 billion isn't going to stop a fundamentalist Christian family and their church from pressuring their 18 year-old son or daughter into getting married and have children into a three-month relationship.

Both of these people / groups have done a good job of trashing marriage. "Sanctity of marriage" is just codespeak for discrimination against homosexuals.

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Old 01-21-2004, 11:53 AM   #26
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and PS

THREE...a grand total of THREE sentences on job creation?

sd
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Old 01-21-2004, 12:15 PM   #27
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Well, aren't all the jobs going to be created on Mars?
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Old 01-21-2004, 01:37 PM   #28
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I enjoyed:

close-ups of Hillary's look of disgust
close-ups of Ted Kennedy shaking his head in horror
the steroids thing which was bizarre

I'm also always astounded when the camera sweeps the audience and I see that a bunch of predominantly creepy pasty old white men are representing me. I don't think so.
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Old 01-21-2004, 01:47 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by DrTeeth
"Our nation must defend the sanctity of marriage"
...

Oh, my god...so he did actually say that, eh?

I did not see this last night. My parents were watching other things. Did he say anything else in regards to that issue?

Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
I think heterosexuals in this country need to start "defending the sanctity of marriage" by taking it seriously.
Exactly. Argh...I swear, I will never get why the idea of homosexuals marrying freaks some people out so much. I have not heard one convincing argument from those who are against homosexual marriage yet. Not a single one.

Anywho, moving on, so it sounds like it was a really crappy speech from the sound of a lot of people's replies here (but hey, what else can you expect with Bush?). Hopefully it'll be the last time he'll have to make the State of the Union address.

Also...U2LipstickBoy, um...what are you on?

Angela
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Old 01-21-2004, 02:17 PM   #30
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my favorite part of the speech...

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Key provisions of the Patriot Act are set to expire next year. (spattering of cheers from the democrats) The terrorist threat will not expire on that schedule (standing O from the republicans)


i can still voice my own opinions, practice my own religions, and lead my life the way i choose to lead it. sorry... i guess that horrifying oppression of the patriot act hasn't reached this part of the country just yet .

where i agree with bush that marriage should be between a man and a woman, some sort of civil union between a man and a man or a woman and a woman should be recognized. the divorce rates in this country are staggering... so the so called sanctity of marriage is already stained... not that allowing civil unions between homosexuals would be a stain, but marriage is no longer sacred, so why try to pretend that it still is. if we live in a nation of freedom of choice, then the choice of a man to spend his life with another man has to be respected, wether you agree with it or not.

education is a tricky subject... great teachers make their students think for themselves, as opposed to just being able to regurgitate information come test day. however, anyone involved in the school system knows that there's a whooooole bunch of teachers out there who can't think for themselves, so how are they supposed to instill that idea on to their students? what we need to do is increase teacher's salaries so that more of our top college students will consider entering the profession. when our teaching core improves, then we can look into phasing out standardized testing. but right now it's needed, not to make sure the students are doing their job, but to make sure the teacher's are.

another favorite part of the speech for me was this...
Quote:
Some critics have said our duties in Iraq must be internationalized. This particular criticism is hard to explain to our partners in Britain, Australia, Japan, South Korea, the Philippines, Thailand, Italy, Spain, Poland, Denmark, Hungary, Bulgaria, Ukraine, Romania, the Netherlands, Norway, El Salvador, and the 17 other countries that have committed troops to Iraq.
the thing that i hated the most leading into war wasn't the anti-war protesters in america. if you feel it wasn't the right way to go, that's 100% your right. what i disliked was the thought that france and germany were against the war for "honorable" reasons. you think bush was led into iraqby the so called special interests, oil, greed, and the "religious right?" Fine... you can make a very solid argument to back up all of those claims. But to say we spat in the face of our allies... however you want to phrase it... is frankly a load of bunk. germany and france were very much looking out for their own "special interests" when they attempted to block america from going to war with iraq. to deny that is just ignorant.

the economy i think is over-rated. it's cyclical. what goes up must come down. has bush's tax cut worked? yes... would the ideas of the democrats have worked as well? more likely than not, yes. this so called "bush recession" started durring the end of the clinton administration. now, the economy is improving and the stock market is rising. has everywhere in america seen the improvement? of course not... was everyone in america prosperous durring the clinton era? of course not... the jobs are slowly comming back. jobs are ALWAYS the last things to come back. companies aren't going to see 4 months of improvement and then all of a sudden start hiring people by the boatloads. if the economy continues to go up, the jobs will continue to come back.

the steroid thing... didn't expect to hear it, but it's a good idea, so why not. the guy's a former owner of a professional baseball team. he's a huge sports fan, so what the hey

the re-entry idea for prisoners i thought was great.

nice play by bush to try to pick up some more votes in the new england region by inviting tom brady

overall... the speech wasn't really groundbreaking in any way. i loved the foreign affairs half, could take or leave his domestic agenda. parts were good, parts were blah. overall... i rate the speach a B... A for foreign affairs, C for domestic.

but that's just my opinion... i could be wrong.
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