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Old 06-05-2005, 03:46 AM   #1
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Star Wars inspired question

In the last movie, padme asks anakin if he ever wonders if he's on the wrong side. She wonders if the seperatists are right.....as a socialist i've often asked myself similar questions. I'm asking you all to list some reasons, ideas etc that you are not convinced you are right on...
I'm sure that since it's 3:42 am this hasn't made the most sense...so i'll give an example
I'm a pacifist but sometimes i wonder if aggressive is ok. I think about WWII and about the Balkans during the 90s....am i right in believing that war is always wrong?
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Old 06-05-2005, 03:55 AM   #2
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i understand what you mean. to go with your example, as a pacifist what would/should you do when another country attacks you? surely no one would suggest to continue to ignore the problem. then again, i think in a lot of cases where we've been attacked, we ignored warnings and could've started the peace talks before anyone died.

then again, there is just no bargaining with some people. quite a conundrum. i try never to be cut and dry with any of my beliefs. the world's not black and white, there's lots of grey everywhere. so i consider myself a pacifist as well but i think there are some times where fighting is all right. to get back to the world war two example you gave, even if we had started peace talks earlier, i think we still would've had to go to war. hitler and the rest of the axis didn't want to negotiate, they wanted to annihilate.
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Old 06-05-2005, 04:01 AM   #3
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I certainly don't think you are right, if you faced a truly amoral foe then pacifism and non-violent resistance would not stop them, they could just kill as many people as it took until any ideas of resistance were extinguished. I think that the Nazi's are a perfect example of this. Were the ZOB and ZZW fighters who rose up against the Nazi's in the Warsaw Ghetto uprising wrong? Fighting to the death rather than go to the gas chambers, was that wrong?

Is war bad? yes of course it is.

Is war the worst possible scenario? here I would disagree (depending on the situation), peace at any price is a dangerous position to hold and in the long term it doesn't prevent conflict, merely delays it.

I think that in Star Wars the seperatists were right, they wanted out of the bloated and inneficient Galactic Republic ~ the Galactic Government like the EU. They wanted to have unbridled capitalism, the fact remains that they were manipulated by a Sith Lord to his own ends (just like the Republic was) but that doesn't make their basic idea of free markets and independence from the Galactic Bureaucracy less sound. And who else was there? the Jedi, who were staging a military coup against the dictator of the Republic.

The only area that I myself am not convinced that I am right on is trying to avoid a strike on Iranian nuclear facilities; I do not know how developed or distributed they are, but if a raid delivered the same outcomes as the Osirak raid then it would be for the better.
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Old 06-05-2005, 03:12 PM   #4
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As I understand your post, it extends beyond war and peace.

1. Although I don't generally believe in aggression,
I believe in air strikes to take out the attack capacity
of a threatening country. I believe in aggressive action to
stop genocide or other wholesale killing.

2. Although I am not philosophically against the death penalty,
I'm against it on practical grounds due to inequity and
dubious evidence.

3. I believe in unions, but do not think it is effective when
a lousy employee cannot be fired.

4. I believe in a free press, but a responsible one, which
some people think is an infringement.

5. I am not convinced there is a God and I'm not convinced
there isn't.

The more I think, the more I experience, the less absolutes I hold.
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Old 06-05-2005, 03:37 PM   #5
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The thing I have reservations about with war, though, is that it drags innocent people into a situation they don't want to be a part of all because of the mistakes of a few people. That, and violence just tends to breed more violence. Sure, in the short term, your problems are solved, but years down the road, if you and the people you had issues with before cross paths again... History has a long-standing thing of people holding grudges.

I have no problem whatsoever with punishing those who've done something wrong, as they obviously deserve it. I just wish we could think of ways to go about it without starting a war which kills a bunch of innocent people who just wanted to go about their lives and who didn't participate in the atrocities and who didn't support them. I'm just one who believes that if you have a problem with someone, you should find a way to deal directly with the person/persons you have a problem with, and leave everyone else out of it. But I know that other people in the world don't see it that way.

Anywho, back to the topic at hand...hmmm...well, I generally have issues with one country trying to dictate to another country how they should run things. I feel that if the people are sick of the crap that happens there, they will do whatever it takes to stop it, not to mention, the country who'd wish to do the dictating would probably not like it if it were done to them.

But at the same time, I know that it would be a problem if people didn't get involved, too, as it'd make it seem like nobody cared about the things going on there, which we should, as those problems affect not only the people in that country, but in other ones as well, and that would lead to even more problems down the road.

Angela
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Old 06-06-2005, 02:40 PM   #6
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AW, you only have one specific case in which you are not sure your beliefs are correct? please let us in on how you can to such amazing knowledge
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Old 06-06-2005, 06:07 PM   #7
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I don't want to make a list a mile long, plus it is better to be cocky
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Old 06-07-2005, 08:34 PM   #8
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"am i right in believing that war is always wrong?"

Yes. Nonviolent resistance was used successfully against the Nazis in World War II, but nobody talks about it. It can be used anywhere, anytime, with just as much success (if not more) as violence.

Visit http://www.aeinstein.org to find out how nonviolence can work in every conflict situation.
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Old 06-08-2005, 12:37 AM   #9
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very cool site
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