Star Wars Episode 3: An Anti-Bush Film? - Page 3 - U2 Feedback

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Old 05-17-2005, 04:21 PM   #31
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wow. props to Teta.

and to Earnie Shavers. you summed up what i was trying to say much more succinctly than i could have (i get very long winded about movies and directors and popular art and meaning from popular culture).
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Old 05-17-2005, 04:46 PM   #32
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It's apparently not that irrelevant if Lucas himself is talking about it.

Star Wars was inspired from a lot of different things, and it seems that when he was writing it, in the early 70's, Vietnam might have crossed his mind. Why else would he be talking about it now, and comparing it to Iraq?
Yes Star Wars was inspired by a lot of things that are thousands of years old. Making a controversial political comments helps sell more tickets, plain and simple. The Movie was written 30 years ago and is about 1 mans fall from grace and his redemption. Lucas would be the first one to say that the Star Wars Saga is not about the US involvement in Vietnam! After having written it, if he sees parallels with political or historical events, fine.
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Old 05-17-2005, 05:00 PM   #33
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yes, i knew the story in 1984 as a small child, but that doesn't mean that Lucas didn't purposely script the Anakin like that's getting so much press. it seems perfectly timed to echo contemporary politics, and Lucas is never going to come out and say, "well this is what i mean." films dont' work that way, directors don't work that way. many, many reviews have pointed out the anti-Bush/imperialism elements in this film. but it seems like you think films can only mean one thing, or do one thing, or that they're either about Rome or the USA and they can't possibly be about both.

scripts are simply edited versions of Lucas' story?

please, take a screenwriting class, or read some scripts.
The story was written over 30 years ago! Star Wars is not about Vietnam, the Vietcong, Saddam or George Bush. Star Wars is about one mans fall from grace and his redemption. The film borrows many of its idea's from religion and culture that is thousands of years old. It was never about modern politics.

Many many reviewers seem to be liberals who can't accept the fact that Bush won in 2004 by the first majority in 16 years and are searching for anything they could percieve as an attack on the Bush administration.

What Star Wars was about and what inspired and influenced the Saga was all well known a quarter of a century ago. Lucas told everyone then about the themes and traditions that were thousands of years old that inspired much of the movie. Not once did he mention Vietnam as an influence for the political situation(in the movies) then or that he considered the United States a democracy in danger of turning to an Empire during that period.
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Old 05-17-2005, 05:04 PM   #34
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What it really highlights is that both the Sith and Bush don't know how to get the people on side with a complete minimum of fuss. The Sith go after Anakin, why? They'd get their way every time if Padme was speaking for them and she would have been far easier to 'turn', not being a Jedi and all. And the 97% of the world who think Bush is a complete chump would change their tune in an instant if Natalie was in front of the cameras. Instead he's got the Cheney's, Rumsfelds, Wolfowitz's etc who all look like the perfect casting for 'Evil Overlord'. Stick Natalie up there. Invade which country? Whatever! Talk tax again! It's sexy!

Evil people are dumb.
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Old 05-17-2005, 05:05 PM   #35
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Do you think that Bush is evil
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Old 05-17-2005, 05:10 PM   #36
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Most South Vietnamese didn't support the U.S., because South Vietnam was a dictatorship. It's not as if the U.S. was trying to promote democracy in the region. In fact, the war started after they knew an election to unite Vietnam in the 1950s would yield a communist leadership. In other words, the U.S. was thwarting the will of the Vietnamese people in the name of "anti-communism."

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My father was an advisor with a South Vietnamese Division in Vietnam. Most South Vienames did support the US and wanted remain independent and free of the Communist North. While the US lost 60,000 soldiers in Vietnam, the South Vietnames lost over 200,000 soldiers! South Vietnam at the time was just as much a democracy as South Korea was back then. It takes time to develop democracy.

The USA was trying to do precisely what they did in South Korea. South Korea today is a prosperous democracy thanks to USA military intervention. If the United States had not suddenly abandoned South Vietnam in 1975, it would be a democracy today and would be just as prosperous as South Korea.

The election in the 1950s had many in the North voting for a Communist dictatorship. The United States did not want to abandon those in the South that wanted to form a prosperous democracy, something that would never happen under the Communist North. It also did not want to see Communism continue to spread through the region. By the way, how many democratic elections has North Vietnam had since its brutal occupation of the South in 1975?
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Old 05-17-2005, 05:18 PM   #37
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what about the spiritual elements of the Star Wars movies? People used to bring that up. I was just reading this article

Jedi "Religion" Sees Dramatic Growth

http://www.explorefaith.org/news/index.html


George Lucas was baptized a Methodist, and raised in a Protestant home. Since that time, his views on spirituality have expanded greatly through study of Eastern religious traditions. The simple fact is that, through the Star Wars films, Lucas’ spiritual vision has had a profound effect on two generations of spiritual seekers.

Lucas also said, in that interview with Bill Moyers: “I would hesitate to call the Force God. It's designed primarily to make young people think about the mystery. Not to say, ‘Here's the answer.’ It’s to say, Think about this for a second. Is there a God? What does God look like? What does God sound like? What does God feel like? How do we relate to God? Just getting young people to think at that level is what I've been trying to do in the films. What eventual manifestation that takes place in terms of how they describe their God, what form their faith takes, is not the point of the movie.”
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Old 05-17-2005, 05:25 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2


The story was written over 30 years ago! Star Wars is not about Vietnam, the Vietcong, Saddam or George Bush. Star Wars is about one mans fall from grace and his redemption. The film borrows many of its idea's from religion and culture that is thousands of years old. It was never about modern politics.

Many many reviewers seem to be liberals who can't accept the fact that Bush won in 2004 by the first majority in 16 years and are searching for anything they could percieve as an attack on the Bush administration.

What Star Wars was about and what inspired and influenced the Saga was all well known a quarter of a century ago. Lucas told everyone then about the themes and traditions that were thousands of years old that inspired much of the movie. Not once did he mention Vietnam as an influence for the political situation(in the movies) then or that he considered the United States a democracy in danger of turning to an Empire during that period.


the story is 30 years old, the SCRIPT is not. big, big difference. and we have Lucas' own comments.

though it's nice to see you the old "liberal" media canard.

and if tickets are the issue, why would Lucas want to be critical of the US? is that a good way to sell tickets? hardly.

also, as anyone who studies literature knows, it doesn't matter what the author wanted to say. it only matters how the text -- be it book, movie, or album -- is read by an audience, and whether or not those readings are valid. if people read parallels to Iraq and Vietnam wtih the rise of the Empire, and they can substantiate these readings with analysis, then that becomes a message of ROTS whether intended or not.

would bono ever say, "no, 'one' is about Guggi's break up, it's not about the Edge's marriage, it's not about AIDS, it's not about a gay son coming out to his father, it's not about Berlin, it's not about the band, it's only about what I SAY it's about when i wrote it in 1991." he would never say that; no artist worth anything woudl ever say that it can only be one thing, and that all other readings are invalid. i've taken fiction writing workshops, and it is AMAZING what can be read from your own writing that you might not have intended, but is still there in the text and it took someone else to point it out to you. artists make decisions, and choices, and they often don't know why they do what they do, and it takes a reader to connect the dots.

just look at the huge amount of homoeroticism and gay imagery on the Boy album. is Bono, or anyone in U2, gay or even bisexual? no. but that doesn't meant that such sexual issues wouldn't find their way into lyrics about a group of very young men starting to grow up.
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Old 05-17-2005, 05:31 PM   #39
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Originally posted by STING2
The USA was trying to do precisely what they did in South Korea. South Korea today is a prosperous democracy thanks to USA military intervention. If the United States had not suddenly abandoned South Vietnam in 1975, it would be a democracy today and would be just as prosperous as South Korea.
Well, I don't defend communism. I guess my point is what's the difference between electing a communist who turns the nation into a dictatorship and electing a capitalist who turns the nation into a dictatorship?

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Old 05-17-2005, 06:05 PM   #40
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Well, I don't defend communism. I guess my point is what's the difference between electing a communist who turns the nation into a dictatorship and electing a capitalist who turns the nation into a dictatorship?

Melon
South Korea, the government that was initially established there after the war was considered by many to be a military dictatorship. But with the continued support of the United States, it slowly evolved into a democracy. This is what would have happened in South Vietnam had the United States not abandon the country in the mid 1970s, regardless of how much progress the South Vietnamese government had or had not made by that time in establishing a true democracy.

Vietnam today is ruled by a Communist dictatorship like North Korea. Had the United States remained to protect South Vietnam, it would have developed into a prosperous democracy just like South Korea is today. With the Communist dictatorship, there of course have been no attempts to develop a democracy.
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Old 05-17-2005, 06:11 PM   #41
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Originally posted by STING2


Yes Star Wars was inspired by a lot of things that are thousands of years old. Making a controversial political comments helps sell more tickets, plain and simple. The Movie was written 30 years ago and is about 1 mans fall from grace and his redemption. Lucas would be the first one to say that the Star Wars Saga is not about the US involvement in Vietnam! After having written it, if he sees parallels with political or historical events, fine.
I would agree that Star Wars isn't about US involvement in Vietnam, but I'm sure underlying political overtones might have inspired CERTAIN ELEMENTS in it.

I don't think, however, that he's trying to be controversial to sell more tickets. This is one movie that will sell millions regardless.
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Old 05-17-2005, 06:22 PM   #42
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Originally posted by Irvine511




the story is 30 years old, the SCRIPT is not. big, big difference. and we have Lucas' own comments.

though it's nice to see you the old "liberal" media canard.

and if tickets are the issue, why would Lucas want to be critical of the US? is that a good way to sell tickets? hardly.

also, as anyone who studies literature knows, it doesn't matter what the author wanted to say. it only matters how the text -- be it book, movie, or album -- is read by an audience, and whether or not those readings are valid. if people read parallels to Iraq and Vietnam wtih the rise of the Empire, and they can substantiate these readings with analysis, then that becomes a message of ROTS whether intended or not.

would bono ever say, "no, 'one' is about Guggi's break up, it's not about the Edge's marriage, it's not about AIDS, it's not about a gay son coming out to his father, it's not about Berlin, it's not about the band, it's only about what I SAY it's about when i wrote it in 1991." he would never say that; no artist worth anything woudl ever say that it can only be one thing, and that all other readings are invalid. i've taken fiction writing workshops, and it is AMAZING what can be read from your own writing that you might not have intended, but is still there in the text and it took someone else to point it out to you. artists make decisions, and choices, and they often don't know why they do what they do, and it takes a reader to connect the dots.

just look at the huge amount of homoeroticism and gay imagery on the Boy album. is Bono, or anyone in U2, gay or even bisexual? no. but that doesn't meant that such sexual issues wouldn't find their way into lyrics about a group of very young men starting to grow up.

The story is what is important, especially in talking about the political situation which is the subject of the thread. The political events of the first 3 Star Wars movies were written 30 years ago. All three Scripts were completed prior to the release of episode I in 1999 and Lucas had toyed with the idea of releasing the movies every year or two years.

We have what Lucas said about all 6 movies from a quarter of a century ago and nothing has changed since then.

If liberals who write for x newspaper or magazine want to see the evil villan in any film as being Bush or his administration, they can do that. Dream and fantasize all you want. Maybe Jabba The Hut is Michael Moore?!

Oh, U2 have said specifically what they wrote certain songs about over the course of their career.
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Old 05-17-2005, 06:24 PM   #43
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Originally posted by phanan


I would agree that Star Wars isn't about US involvement in Vietnam, but I'm sure underlying political overtones might have inspired CERTAIN ELEMENTS in it.

I don't think, however, that he's trying to be controversial to sell more tickets. This is one movie that will sell millions regardless.
George Lucas talked about what inspired everything in the movies a quarter of a century ago current political events was not one of them.
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Old 05-17-2005, 06:26 PM   #44
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Originally posted by STING2

Many many reviewers seem to be liberals who can't accept the fact that Bush won in 2004 by the first majority in 16 years and are searching for anything they could percieve as an attack on the Bush administration.
It could be said that many many conservatives are very defensive when someone questions the Bush administration, when all we are talking about here is whether George Lucas sees a correlation between Star Wars and current events.

I'm a centrist myself, but just because I theorize about what a person is thinking when he creates art doesn't automatically make me a liberal.
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Old 05-17-2005, 06:29 PM   #45
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George Lucas talked about what inspired everything in the movies a quarter of a century ago current political events was not one of them.
Just because he might not have mentioned Vietnam publicly at the time does not mean he wasn't thinking about it at all. We obviously don't know everything.
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