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Old 12-14-2005, 11:10 AM   #316
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
I do not think Jesus' teachings were necessesarily a set of guidlines by which a government is supposed to operate.
Agreed.

But if you are Chrtistian and you believe that the commandments and Jesus' teachings are guidelines by which you should live and guide yourself morally as an individual, supporting the death penalty is in direct contradiction.

Anyone care to disagree?
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Old 12-14-2005, 11:50 AM   #317
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Quote:
Originally posted by AliEnvy


Agreed.

But if you are Chrtistian and you believe that the commandments and Jesus' teachings are guidelines by which you should live and guide yourself morally as an individual, supporting the death penalty is in direct contradiction.

Anyone care to disagree?
Yes. Dread clearly pointed out the difference between personal behavior and what is conducted by the government.

Jesus faced the prospect of capital punishment and never said it was wrong.

The Old Testament gives us both commands of thou shall not murder (personal - Jesus later explained that this included hatred) and calling for capital punishment (as part of a judicial system).

Both points are clearly supported by Scripture.
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Old 12-14-2005, 11:54 AM   #318
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


I can tell you the only piece of scripture that they will use and its;

"live by the sword and die by the sword"

because I've seen it offered several times in trying to justify the two conflicting beliefs.

But that piece of scripture say nothing to me about government sanctioned punishment. It speaks to me of lifestyle. If you live the life of a gun toting mobster you will probably die that way.
"Die that way" at the hands of a judicial system that employed capital punishment. The use of capital punishment is consistent with the breadth of Scripture.
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Old 12-14-2005, 11:57 AM   #319
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Quote:
Originally posted by AliEnvy


I repeat...thou shalt not kill.

For those who are tring to lead a Christian life, what part of this isn't clear?

I'm not trying to be confrontational or pick on you in particular, nbcrusader, but I'd honestly like someone to explain to me how they reconcile supporting the death penalty with their Christian ethos.
In a nutsehll, you have taken one part of the Old Testament and ignored another.

If you are trying to lead a Christian life, do not hate others = that is the clear application of "thou shall not kill" as explained by Jesus.

It in no way eliminates the consequences of sin - including a judicial systems imposition of the death penalty.
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Old 12-14-2005, 11:58 AM   #320
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
I do not think Jesus' teachings were necessesarily a set of guidlines by which a government is supposed to operate.

Just my 2 Cents....Give to Ceasar waht is Ceasar's.
I agree.

But if we are talking about a set of personal (rather than governmental) guidelines, then does it not stand to reason that many Christians (the most obvious example being the Catholic Church) will be vigorously opposed to the death penalty? Putting aside what they may wish their government did, I can see how one would for personal, religious reasons, find the death penalty immoral. And for all the scriptural reference - well, not all Christians (in fact the majority do not) view the Bible to be the final authority anyway.
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Old 12-14-2005, 12:06 PM   #321
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Jesus faced the prospect of capital punishment and never said it was wrong.

Yes and he was the perfect example of someone innocent dying by the means of capital punishment.

A good reason why it's wrong.
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Old 12-14-2005, 12:11 PM   #322
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


"Die that way" at the hands of a judicial system that employed capital punishment. The use of capital punishment is consistent with the breadth of Scripture.
Matthew 26:25, “Put your sword back in its place, for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.”

Then why didn't he say live by the sword, die by the cross, or the other means of capital punishment at the time?
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Old 12-14-2005, 12:12 PM   #323
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader

In a nutsehll, you have taken one part of the Old Testament and ignored another.

If you are trying to lead a Christian life, do not hate others = that is the clear application of "thou shall not kill" as explained by Jesus.

It in no way eliminates the consequences of sin - including a judicial systems imposition of the death penalty.
Quote some of the more relevant scriptures, please, this is finally getting interesting lol.
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Old 12-14-2005, 12:16 PM   #324
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram


I agree.

But if we are talking about a set of personal (rather than governmental) guidelines, then does it not stand to reason that many Christians (the most obvious example being the Catholic Church) will be vigorously opposed to the death penalty? Putting aside what they may wish their government did, I can see how one would for personal, religious reasons, find the death penalty immoral. And for all the scriptural reference - well, not all Christians (in fact the majority do not) view the Bible to be the final authority anyway.
there are many mainstream Christian Churches that have no problem supporting the death penalty.

Do I expect Christians who find it wrong to speak out? Do I expect Christians who see nothing wrong with it to speak out?

Yes to both....

Unless the direction of this thread is to claim that people are not Christian if they support the death penalty.
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Old 12-14-2005, 12:16 PM   #325
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Matthew 26:25, “Put your sword back in its place, for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.”

Then why didn't he say live by the sword, die by the cross, or the other means of capital punishment at the time?
Was he giving instructions to save lives at that point?

What would have happened had his followers fought right there in the garden? WHo would have carried on the message?

Context?
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Old 12-14-2005, 12:17 PM   #326
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Matthew 26:25, “Put your sword back in its place, for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.”

Then why didn't he say live by the sword, die by the cross, or the other means of capital punishment at the time?
The cross was only used by the Romans as the cruelest (and talk to a doctor, it really is horrendous) form of capital punishment.
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Old 12-14-2005, 12:25 PM   #327
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Quote:
Originally posted by AliEnvy
Quote some of the more relevant scriptures, please, this is finally getting interesting lol.
Let's start with Genesis 9:6 "Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made man."


In each of the five books of the Pentateuch, there are provisions for capital punishment - covering over 20 different offenses. These provision were given before and after the handing down of the Ten Commandments.


As for the difference between our personal obligations, remember that we are to submit to our government. 1 Peter 2:13-14 tells us "Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right."
emphasis added
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Old 12-14-2005, 12:30 PM   #328
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Quote some of the more relevant scriptures, please, this is finally getting interesting lol.
Let's go further. Even Paul acknowledge that he could face capital punishment if he did something wrong in Acts 25:11 "If, however, I am guilty of doing anything deserving death, I do not refuse to die. But if the charges brought against me by these Jews are not true, no one has the right to hand me over to them. I appeal to Caesar!" emphasis added
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Old 12-14-2005, 12:30 PM   #329
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For those quoting thou shalt not kill.....

I believe through my readings that the commandment in its original translation is "Thou shalt not murder".

Murder...premeditated....one man against another is not the same as a Government enforcing the law.
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Old 12-14-2005, 12:33 PM   #330
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Quote:
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Context?
Exactly. So why is this the scripture that I see so many use to defend capital punishment?
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