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Old 12-13-2005, 09:28 PM   #271
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
The death penalty is the ultimate denial of liberty, a secular argument could be made that on that basis it is a justifiable punishment in cases of murder, one could also envision cases where people could be rendered brain dead or more malicious yet a state of conciousness without being able to control their bodies.
Someone's been watching Minority Report.
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Old 12-13-2005, 09:29 PM   #272
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Hahaha well this just keeps getting more and more twisted now doesn't it...that last idea reminded me of the punishment for sloth in the movie Seven, but I digress.

Ok, go ahead and make the secular agument please, that's what I've been waiting for lol.
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Old 12-13-2005, 09:31 PM   #273
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I think we all know where that idea comes from

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Old 12-13-2005, 09:33 PM   #274
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Originally posted by AliEnvy


How is it better off? How does killing him serve the public good?
Are you serious? How does killing him serve the public good? The guy was a murdering cold-blooded killer- what?...you want him free?

Why don't you picture your mother or father or sister or whoever brutally killed by this asshole for no reason at all? You still want to pay to keep him comfortable for the rest of his life in a nice comfy jail cell. He was a celebrity in there and probably had whatever he wanted.

If they killed every convicted murderer within 24 hours of the conviction the same way they had killed their victims, I bet there would be less murders.
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Old 12-13-2005, 09:40 PM   #275
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Are you serious? How does killing him serve the public good? The guy was a murdering cold-blooded killer- what?...you want him free?
That's the presumptuous leap in logic I asked you not to make earlier.

If he is in prison for life, how does killing him serve anything other than your bloodlust?
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Old 12-13-2005, 09:45 PM   #276
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Quote:
Originally posted by elevateandy


Are you serious? How does killing him serve the public good? The guy was a murdering cold-blooded killer- what?...you want him free?
Why is it you ignore prison terms?

You still haven't proven how a dealth penalty make society any better or safer than life in prison...
Quote:
Originally posted by elevateandy

Why don't you picture your mother or father or sister or whoever brutally killed by this asshole for no reason at all? You still want to pay to keep him comfortable for the rest of his life in a nice comfy jail cell. He was a celebrity in there and probably had whatever he wanted.
I don't have to imagine; my 19 year old cousin, who was like a sister, was murdered by a jealous lover. He's serving a life sentence. The family didn't want the death penalty. No celeb status and he has to live with it the rest of his long life.


Quote:
Originally posted by elevateandy

If they killed every convicted murderer within 24 hours of the conviction the same way they had killed their victims, I bet there would be less murders.
You mean if we had a system where you were guilty until proven innocent and there were no checks and balances? Sounds great...
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Old 12-13-2005, 10:09 PM   #277
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As Trevster pointed out earlier, there are so many innocents who are wrongly convicted of murder –we’ve seen too many lives ruined on that stage alone here in Canada. These are individuals who’ve lost the most productive years of their lives. The possibility of executing a conceivably innocent person is repeating the act of murder.

So, what to do about the guilty? I don’t have all the answers, but I do believe in life-long sentences matching the severity of the crime committed. There’s a lot of grey area, but ultimately, isn’t it better to be forced to learn from your mistakes, forced to contemplate, and hopefully forced to evolve from that point of darkness when the crime was carried out? This is the whole idea behind putting someone in jail. Admittedly, this will be impossible for some criminals to wrap their heads around--those who are clinically insane, etc.

The scariest realization is, however, is that most murderers are not as removed genetically from the rest of us as we’d like to believe. Most killers are not of the serial variety.

What I am dead-set against is an eye-for-an-eye mentality that seems to be so prevalent in U.S. culture and politics at the moment. The country’s leaders are initiating wars of aggression, looking for the quick solutions against perceived “evils,” and virtually violating every aspect of international human rights laws along the way.

It’s very sad, but not surprising, that they continue the same philosophy at home with the death penalty. As shown by the person who posted those pictures earlier, there is a culture of people who enjoy the immediate gratification of seeing a life being snuffed out, or a country being bombarded.

The harder path, and less immediately gratifying, is finding the societal motivations—and ultimately solutions—revolving around criminal acts.

It’s simply not as sexy to address the poverty of individuals, the lack of education, and the inability of poor people to find worth in their lives.
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Old 12-13-2005, 11:14 PM   #278
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

Why is it you ignore prison terms?

You still haven't proven how a dealth penalty make society any better or safer than life in prison...

I don't have to imagine; my 19 year old cousin, who was like a sister, was murdered by a jealous lover. He's serving a life sentence. The family didn't want the death penalty. No celeb status and he has to live with it the rest of his long life.




You mean if we had a system where you were guilty until proven innocent and there were no checks and balances? Sounds great...
Ignore prison terms? Why should that person be allowed to breath after they have taken life?

Life is a gift no matter where it is spent. Why should they be allowed that gift?

The death penalty eliminates a person from society- no more problems at anyone's cost.

I guarantee you there would be less crime if it was used more- prison is not scary nor a lesson for many criminals these days. It is probably better than their previous homelife.

Guilty before proven innocent? I never said that or anything close to that...don't play CNN with my words. I stated that once a criminal has been found guilty of a brutal crime- kill them.
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Old 12-13-2005, 11:20 PM   #279
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Quote:
Originally posted by elevateandy
Guilty before proven innocent? I never said that or anything close to that...don't play CNN with my words. I stated that once a criminal has been found guilty of a brutal crime- kill them.
Whether you like it or not, the appeals process is a vital part of a democracy. Every check has its balance, just as the Constitution intended. Now if you want to complain about the time between appeals, that's within your right. Most of these appeals are not back-to-back, as far as I know.

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Old 12-13-2005, 11:39 PM   #280
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Quote:
Originally posted by elevateandy

Life is a gift no matter where it is spent. Why should they be allowed that gift?
Maybe because it was not your gift to take back.
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Old 12-13-2005, 11:47 PM   #281
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Quote:
Originally posted by AliEnvy


Maybe because it was not your gift to take back.
It was not Tookie's right to take back the life of his victims' now was it?
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Old 12-13-2005, 11:56 PM   #282
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Anyway...

All I know is last night before turning in, I offered up a prayer to God accompanied with my sweetheart that Tookie's soul be showed some mercy and that the ppl he killed here and hurt here forgive him and was glad he attempted to do some good with his life while awaiting completion of his sentence. He had changed his ways and encouraged kids to to keep out of gangs. Maybe this was part of God's grace working here, some could speculate.

I was also glad to hear what he told Jesse Jackson to not avenge his death but to remember him by doing good things as he has tried to do during alot of his prison sentence.

In the end, Tookie took his penality like a man.

Liberals need to stop calling completion of a prison sentence vengence, when it's in fact justice carried out.

That's all.

And no, nobody's giddy about watching any murderer die, if they are, then thet have their own issues to deal with.

Peace,

db9
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Old 12-13-2005, 11:59 PM   #283
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Quote:
Originally posted by elevateandy


Ignore prison terms? Why should that person be allowed to breath after they have taken life?

Life is a gift no matter where it is spent. Why should they be allowed that gift?
Gift given by who? And why are we the ones to take it away?
Quote:
Originally posted by elevateandy

The death penalty eliminates a person from society- no more problems at anyone's cost.
Except living with the burden that some may be innocent.
Quote:
Originally posted by elevateandy

I guarantee you there would be less crime if it was used more- prison is not scary nor a lesson for many criminals these days. It is probably better than their previous homelife.
LOL Evidence shows this guarantee is BS. I'm sure prison is a vacation.
Quote:
Originally posted by elevateandy

Guilty before proven innocent? I never said that or anything close to that...don't play CNN with my words. I stated that once a criminal has been found guilty of a brutal crime- kill them.
You said 24 hours... I'm not playing with words. That's the only way a 24 hour system would work. Do you know how many innocent people we would have killed? Don't be foolish.
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Old 12-14-2005, 12:02 AM   #284
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Liberals need to stop calling completion of a prison sentence vengence, when it's in fact justice carried out.

I'm glad you and all the conservatives have power of absolution and know this for a fact.
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Old 12-14-2005, 12:09 AM   #285
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Quote:
Originally posted by elevateandy

It was not Tookie's right to take back the life of his victims' now was it?
Nope, sure wasn't.

If you believe fundamentally that taking life is wrong, there's no justification for taking Tookie's life.

Sure, go ahead and do it, call it absolute justice or whatever makes you feel better about it, but really, it's no better than the original crime.
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