Stanley Tookie Williams - Page 14 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-13-2005, 06:36 PM   #196
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
Justin24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Mateo
Posts: 6,716
Local Time: 01:12 PM
What I cant understand if how you would keep him in jail for the rest of his life, knowing her murdered 4 people in cold blood, and had no remorse and did not apologize to the families. Even if he had been given a life sentence he could still cause harm on the inside. He can still call Hits from inside to his gang on the outside.
How could you possible keep Hitler alive in jail for all the horror he had done. If he was going to be executed, would you go out and have a vigil with him?
__________________

__________________
Justin24 is offline  
Old 12-13-2005, 06:42 PM   #197
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
Justin24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Mateo
Posts: 6,716
Local Time: 01:12 PM
Well If I am in jail and it takes 15 years for them to finally put me out. I have 15 years to get as many people to hear me. Would I be like Tookie and right books like him, mabey. I would ask my spiritual adviser to help clear me. Get an outside investigation team.
I am aware that some innocent people might have been executed. If I were executed, the only person who would know I am innocent is God.
__________________

__________________
Justin24 is offline  
Old 12-13-2005, 06:42 PM   #198
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,697
Local Time: 02:12 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24
What I cant understand if how you would keep him in jail for the rest of his life, knowing her murdered 4 people in cold blood, and had no remorse and did not apologize to the families. Even if he had been given a life sentence he could still cause harm on the inside. He can still call Hits from inside to his gang on the outside.
How could you possible keep Hitler alive in jail for all the horror he had done. If he was going to be executed, would you go out and have a vigil with him?
Well I've told you before. I don't believe in humankind playing God.

WE DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO CARRY OUT SUCH ABSOLUTES!!!
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 12-13-2005, 06:44 PM   #199
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
Justin24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Mateo
Posts: 6,716
Local Time: 01:12 PM
We dont have the ability! Corporations that control the masses with TV, who like to side things in their view. Propoganda, etc... Cloning is that not trying to be like God.
__________________
Justin24 is offline  
Old 12-13-2005, 06:45 PM   #200
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
Justin24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Mateo
Posts: 6,716
Local Time: 01:12 PM
I dont want to be your enemy BonoVox. I am just stating my opinions.
__________________
Justin24 is offline  
Old 12-13-2005, 06:47 PM   #201
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,697
Local Time: 02:12 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24
Well If I am in jail and it takes 15 years for them to finally put me out. I have 15 years to get as many people to hear me. Would I be like Tookie and right books like him, mabey. I would ask my spiritual adviser to help clear me. Get an outside investigation team.
What does this have to do with it?

Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24

I am aware that some innocent people might have been executed.
And you're fine with that? That's almost as troubling as the vengeful tone in some of your posts.
Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24

If I were executed, the only person who would know I am innocent is God.
And probably the one that actually commited the crime. The girlfriend you were with at the time of the murder but was discredited on the stand. Possibly even others...
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 12-13-2005, 06:48 PM   #202
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
trevster2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,330
Local Time: 04:42 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24
Well If I am in jail and it takes 15 years for them to finally put me out. I have 15 years to get as many people to hear me. Would I be like Tookie and right books like him, mabey. I would ask my spiritual adviser to help clear me. Get an outside investigation team.
I am aware that some innocent people might have been executed. If I were executed, the only person who would know I am innocent is God.
You're a nobody, no one cares, almost everyone but your mom thinks you're guilty. No gives a shit and they think you are a cold-hearted monster who destroyed the life of a young flower. You're only spiritual advisor is a clergy guy who might come around once a month to visit you in solitary.---This pertains to the situation.

If you agree that innocents have been executed, then the government, we the people and all that , have committed murder which is the flaw in the system.
__________________
trevster2k is offline  
Old 12-13-2005, 06:49 PM   #203
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,697
Local Time: 02:12 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24
We dont have the ability! Corporations that control the masses with TV, who like to side things in their view. Propoganda, etc... Cloning is that not trying to be like God.


You're losing me.
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 12-13-2005, 06:51 PM   #204
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
Justin24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Mateo
Posts: 6,716
Local Time: 01:12 PM
Like I said in an earlier post. That the facts must be 100% I never said executing an innocent person was right. Dont put words in my mouth.
__________________
Justin24 is offline  
Old 12-13-2005, 06:51 PM   #205
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,697
Local Time: 02:12 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24
I dont want to be your enemy BonoVox. I am just stating my opinions.
I'm not making enemies. I'm having a debate. Often in debate one will show the weakness of the other's argument.
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 12-13-2005, 06:54 PM   #206
Refugee
 
AliEnvy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2,320
Local Time: 08:12 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by trevster2k If you agree that innocents have been executed, then the government, we the people and all that , have committed murder which is the flaw in the system.
So killing guity people is not murder?
__________________
AliEnvy is offline  
Old 12-13-2005, 06:54 PM   #207
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 12:12 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by trevster2k


Thanks for not answering the question and responding with another question, you should be in politics.

I know that there have been innocent people convicted of murder and am convinced that there are innocent people still sitting on death rows around America and innocent men have been executed. That fact alone makes capitall punishment the wrong policy because innocent people are having their lives ruined due to poor lawyering, crooked cops, bad judges/juries, coerced confessions, false testimony, etc regardless of the moral issue.

To answer your question, yes, there are hundreds if not thousands of people wrongly convicted of crimes for a variety of reasons. The solution would be correcting inequalites and ensuring fairness in the legal system but you can't legislate fairness, no cops with a beef, removal of the inability to afford competent representation, no pre-conceived notions of juries, etc. But at least a person convicted for theft or assault doesn't get the ultimate punishment as a result of the mistake.

David Milgaard, Ruben "Hurricane" Carter, Donald Marshall, Guy Paul Morin, Ronald Dalton, Greg Parsons, Randy Druken, these are just a few men who have been released from wrongful convictions for murder. There are many more. Thanks to these expensive appeals everyone here harps on, they were cleared and have had to rebuild their lives. Yes, the guilty should be punished but not at the expense of the innocent. Until the legal system can guarantee an infallible system of proving guilt, capital punishment is wrong.
I am well familiar with the potential for mistake argument (I've been through all of these in law school). It really has nothing to do with perfecting the legal system (which is impossible), but argues to suspend capital punishment until this unachievable goal is achieved.

We are also in an era where DNA evidence can cast new doubts on a conviction (not disprove a conviction or identify the truly guilty party), and a general lack of understanding of the science involved causes us to act with greater caution.

But to the extent we are allowing a government to "play god" and deny someone their liberty, I believe it is fully reasonable to keep capital punishment as the punishment of last resort. Yes, the government should be able to carry out such "absolutes". After all, Tookie and other death row inmates have carried out absolutes on their own.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 12-13-2005, 06:54 PM   #208
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,697
Local Time: 02:12 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24
Like I said in an earlier post. That the facts must be 100% I never said executing an innocent person was right. Dont put words in my mouth.
And I've said that's impossible. We are human. There is no 100% system.

You said
Quote:
I am aware that some innocent people might have been executed.
So you admit the system is flawed. Yet you are willing to send more innocent lives to death to seek revenge on the others. This system is final and your willingness to do this is truly disturbing to me.
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 12-13-2005, 06:57 PM   #209
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 12:12 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
So you admit the system is flawed. Yet you are willing to send more innocent lives to death to seek revenge on the others. This system is final and your willingness to do this is truly disturbing to me.
Why would we allow any form of punishment if there is a possibility of an error? Isn't that just as disturbing?
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 12-13-2005, 06:59 PM   #210
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
trevster2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,330
Local Time: 04:42 PM
I understand what you are saying Justin. You don't agree with innocent's being executed but Tookie killed 4 people and was the founder of the Crips so he deserved the death penalty.

But how do we know for certain that he was guilty for the crimes he was convicted of? We don't. The courts in 1981 found him guilty based on testimony from accomplices who benefited from their testimony. But if that's good enough for you, so be it.

Thanks for the chat, Justin.
__________________

__________________
trevster2k is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com