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Old 12-13-2005, 03:57 PM   #181
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Wow, read the last part of the article. Tookie seems so nice, we should have done more to save him.

http://today.reuters.com/news/NewsAr...l&related=true


Look a model Prisoner: http://crime.about.com/od/deathrow/a/tookie15.htm

Here is the story on the murder of the 7-11 clerk: http://crime.about.com/od/deathrow/a/tookie2.htm
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Old 12-13-2005, 04:23 PM   #182
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Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24
Wow, read the last part of the article. Tookie seems so nice, we should have done more to save him.

http://today.reuters.com/news/NewsAr...l&related=true


Look a model Prisoner: http://crime.about.com/od/deathrow/a/tookie15.htm

Here is the story on the murder of the 7-11 clerk: http://crime.about.com/od/deathrow/a/tookie2.htm
You can post all the articles you want about who did what and how evil and terrible their crimes are, people who are against the death penalty acknowledge that they are bad people.

By killing these people, we are killing part of ourselves as a civilized reasoning society. Those individuals who commit these acts aren't part of our society anymore and should be incarcerated for their crimes. To defeat the monster we should not become the monster.

You can agree with the death penalty based on the belief that murderers are evil people and should be executed, fine, but the issue is much more complex than that argument. But it's your choice, and you are free to believe what you wish.

Don't take this the wrong way, but when I was 24 , I felt exactly the way you did. I was gung-ho for executions, kill em all, bastards! But a few years back, I came to a revelation that the system is imperfect, innocent people are being convicted and killed by the government because of bias in the legal system. It is a barbaric , archaic practice which most democracies on the planet agreed to abolish except for a few while countries which are flagrant human rights abusers continue to allow it. Do some research, take away the emotional response to the topic and maybe you will understand where some of us are coming from. You may still support the death penalty but again, it is your right to do so.
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Old 12-13-2005, 04:24 PM   #183
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Thou shalt not kill.

Pretty simple, yes?
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Old 12-13-2005, 05:13 PM   #184
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Well Pumping to holes in the guys body like what Williams did is not civilized. I had to research the Death Penalty for class, as one of our subjects. I still believe in the death penalty. They should also make 100% sure he is the person before giving that sentence.
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Old 12-13-2005, 05:21 PM   #185
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They should also make 100% sure he is the person before giving that sentence.


but this is the problem. the death penalty is 100% final. convictions are not. there have been dozens (if not hundreds) of cases where, thanks to DNA evidence and technology, convictions have been overturned and innocent men have been set free. it's the inability of a human system of justice to fairly and correctly utilize the death penalty that makes me anti-death penalty. i'm agnostic as to whether it is right or wrong to murder murderers. i simply think the death penalty is a bad punishment.
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Old 12-13-2005, 05:31 PM   #186
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I am saying before there is a trial or during the trial, make sure all the evidence is 100 % correct.
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Old 12-13-2005, 05:33 PM   #187
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I am saying before there is a trial or during the trial, make sure all the evidence is 100 % correct.


but is this ever possible to do in all cases?
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Old 12-13-2005, 05:35 PM   #188
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Mabey. We have never done it, I think.
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Old 12-13-2005, 05:48 PM   #189
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http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/t...nt/index.jhtml

click on spectacle

A light-hearted take on a serious subject. Gotta love Colbert!
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Old 12-13-2005, 05:52 PM   #190
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Mabey. We have never done it, I think.


but if we're hearing about how many people who have been either set free or had their sentences drastically reduced due to DNA evidence, isn't it logical to assume that dozens, if not hundreds, of innocent people have been put to death in this country?

and what arguments are there for the death penalty other than the cost of incarcertaing someone for life and giving the family not a sense of closure but a feeling of vengence?

what is the argument for the death penalty?
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Old 12-13-2005, 05:55 PM   #191
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Originally posted by Justin24
Tookie seems so nice, we should have done more to save him.

You haven't got it yet have you?
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Old 12-13-2005, 05:57 PM   #192
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They should also make 100% sure he is the person before giving that sentence.
Show me one human designed system, ran by humans that has or can do this all the time?!
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Old 12-13-2005, 06:10 PM   #193
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So I am supposed to show compasion for a person the killed another human being and give him a big hug and say "you know that was a bad thing you did." I think I will be like Jesus and forgive you. One thing I want to ask you BonoVox. If we had Captured Hitler alive, would you say no to his execution or is this a special cirumstance?
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Old 12-13-2005, 06:20 PM   #194
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So I am supposed to show compasion for a person the killed another human being and give him a big hug and say "you know that was a bad thing you did." I think I will be like Jesus and forgive you. One thing I want to ask you BonoVox. If we had Captured Hitler alive, would you say no to his execution or is this a special cirumstance?
Once again you're taking leaps of logic. No one said anything about a hug and forgiveness, a life sentence isn't exactly a hug.

I'd let him rot, why can't you understand this?
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Old 12-13-2005, 06:32 PM   #195
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Ok Justin, let's ask you a question.

Let's say you are a poor person of a visible minority in 1975. Let's say someone close to you gets murdered in the home you live in like a girlfriend,( I do not wish this upon you, this is just hypothetical). Let's say they charge you with the murder, some witnesses say they saw you arguing with the deceased, your physical evidence is all over the place and on the body of the deceased like hair samples and your blood under her fingernails, the cop is a racist who treats you like shit and you aren't too smart due to a learning disability which teachers failed to recognize so you aren't to sure about your rights, you don't have a lawyer except for a public defender who doesn't fight too hard for you as they are probably overwhelmed with tons of other cases, an all white jury convicts you of the murder based on the evidence despite the fact you didn't do it because while you went for a walk to clear your head after the fight, someone broke into your home and killed the deceased cause she caught them trying to steal your tv, they panicked and left with nothing. They sentence you to death. You die after 15 years of appeals. Then in 1995, DNA evidence proves you didn't do it, it was another guy they already have convicted for 2 other murders. How do you feel about it now? You're dead though. Ruben Carter had people who believed in him as did many others, this may not be the case with Tookie but it is in many other cases.

The police in many cities and the DA are desperate to pin a murder on people. Society feels safer when someone goes to jail for murder. Hence, all the bull that happens during the whole prosecution process. Unfortunately, there are hundreds of murderers walking around free in our society who will never be caught.

And as Bonovox said, we don't want the murderers to go free, clemency or commutation is not freedom. They spend the rest of their lives incarcerated, locked away from society with no freedom.
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