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Old 12-13-2005, 12:37 PM   #166
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Yup that article is only showing one side. They sure are showing vengance aren't they.
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Old 12-13-2005, 12:40 PM   #167
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Originally posted by financeguy


That article seems to quote only left wing opinion in Europe, surely they should also have asked conservative political parties for their view.
I just quoted the article title.
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Old 12-13-2005, 12:43 PM   #168
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Originally posted by nbcrusader

Isn't this just another form of vengence?
Probably, but it's infinitely less harmful than the vengence that occurred last night, and it lacks the permanence, too. It can be undone, should they ever find cause to do so.
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Old 12-13-2005, 12:44 PM   #169
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
I just quoted the article title.
I appreciate that but there seems to be a preponderance of left leaning opinion quoted (e.g. the Greens). What I am trying to say is I suspect a lot of Europeans would sympathise with the action of Mr Schwarzenegger in approving the execution of the crime boss and multiple murderer Tookie.
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Old 12-13-2005, 01:13 PM   #170
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I was wondering for all the people who support the death penalty? Do you think that innocent people have been executed or sit on death row awaiting execution?
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Old 12-13-2005, 01:18 PM   #171
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Originally posted by trevster2k
I was wondering for all the people who support the death penalty? Do you think that innocent people have been executed or sit on death row awaiting execution?
That is really not a question about the death penalty, but a question about the soundness of our legal system.

Are there people in prison who are innocent? If so, how do you refine the system to reduce the number of innocents jailed without freeing the guilty?
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Old 12-13-2005, 01:53 PM   #172
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


That is really not a question about the death penalty, but a question about the soundness of our legal system.

Has everything to do with the death penalty. We are human and will have human error, therefore we will never have the ability to make these types of absolutes.
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Old 12-13-2005, 02:17 PM   #173
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Good riddance Tookie. It's a shame you messed your life up so bad, but the punishment fits the crime and I won't be shedding any tears for you.

Oh, and the comments about Arnold having blood on his hands over this is beyond ridiculous. You see this is a society of laws. Tookie here broke some of the most important laws of the land. Here the people have decided that the death penalty is a legitimate punishment for certain crimes. Took had his trial, was found guilty, and the people decided what his punishment should be. It's not Arnold's job to come in and alter it at the last minute.

Oh and saying that Tookie should be granted clemency because he was nominated for a nobel peace prize is also a joke. There is basically no criteria whatsoever for nobel peace prize nominations. Hell, Yasser Arafat actually won the damn thing and there aren't a whole lot of people who were more deserving of the death penalty than him in the last 30 years.

I agree on this.

If it's the law, it's the law. And if that was the punishment for the crimes he commited than that's what he deserves.

If he is willing to commit the crime he should be willing to accept the consquences.

I don't see what the whole debate is.
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Old 12-13-2005, 02:26 PM   #174
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I agree on this.

If it's the law, it's the law. And if that was the punishment for the crimes he commited than that's what he deserves.
So we're not allowed to question our government? We're not allowed to question the means of punishment?

That's ridiculous. Might as well go back to public hangings if that's your mentality.
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Old 12-13-2005, 02:28 PM   #175
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


So we're not allowed to question our government? We're not allowed to question the means of punishment?

That's ridiculous. Might as well go back to public hangings if that's your mentality.
I guess we've clearly define the polarity of this issue. Perhaps an interesting question would be "on what basis should a death row inmate receive clemency?"
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Old 12-13-2005, 02:50 PM   #176
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


I guess we've clearly define the polarity of this issue. Perhaps an interesting question would be "on what basis should a death row inmate receive clemency?"
Not sure what that has to do with what I posted.

I'm just trying to point out the weakness of any argument that says "this is status quo so this is how it is.
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Old 12-13-2005, 03:11 PM   #177
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


That is really not a question about the death penalty, but a question about the soundness of our legal system.

Are there people in prison who are innocent? If so, how do you refine the system to reduce the number of innocents jailed without freeing the guilty?
Thanks for not answering the question and responding with another question, you should be in politics.

I know that there have been innocent people convicted of murder and am convinced that there are innocent people still sitting on death rows around America and innocent men have been executed. That fact alone makes capitall punishment the wrong policy because innocent people are having their lives ruined due to poor lawyering, crooked cops, bad judges/juries, coerced confessions, false testimony, etc regardless of the moral issue.

To answer your question, yes, there are hundreds if not thousands of people wrongly convicted of crimes for a variety of reasons. The solution would be correcting inequalites and ensuring fairness in the legal system but you can't legislate fairness, no cops with a beef, removal of the inability to afford competent representation, no pre-conceived notions of juries, etc. But at least a person convicted for theft or assault doesn't get the ultimate punishment as a result of the mistake.

David Milgaard, Ruben "Hurricane" Carter, Donald Marshall, Guy Paul Morin, Ronald Dalton, Greg Parsons, Randy Druken, these are just a few men who have been released from wrongful convictions for murder. There are many more. Thanks to these expensive appeals everyone here harps on, they were cleared and have had to rebuild their lives. Yes, the guilty should be punished but not at the expense of the innocent. Until the legal system can guarantee an infallible system of proving guilt, capital punishment is wrong.
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Old 12-13-2005, 03:18 PM   #178
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Quote:
Originally posted by trevster2k

To answer your question, yes, there are hundreds if not thousands of people wrongly convicted of crimes for a variety of reasons. The solution would be correcting inequalites and ensuring fairness in the legal system but you can't legislate fairness, no cops with a beef, removal of the inability to afford competent representation, no pre-conceived notions of juries, etc. But at least a person convicted for theft or assault doesn't get the ultimate punishment as a result of the mistake.


and let's not forget the inherent racism of the death penalty.

blacks are far, far more likely to be sentenced to death for the same crimes than whites.
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Old 12-13-2005, 03:28 PM   #179
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and let's not forget the inherent racism of the death penalty.

blacks are far, far more likely to be sentenced to death for the same crimes than whites.
And vast numbers of death row inmates are either racial minorities, impoverished, or both, and can't afford good legal representation to defend themselves.
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Old 12-13-2005, 03:33 PM   #180
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




and let's not forget the inherent racism of the death penalty.

blacks are far, far more likely to be sentenced to death for the same crimes than whites.
I'm not to sure about the race issue, but I'm certain money is a huge factor.

This is a link about death penaltys carried out and racial mixup of the convicted.

http://www.naacpldf.org/content/pdf/...ummer_2005.pdf
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