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Old 08-05-2004, 01:49 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
They're musicians, not political analysts. They are supporting a person, not articulating an issue.
While artists have let their opinion be known for years I have never seen a concert totally dedicated to the destruction of the political career of one man before. Even 'rock the vote' concerts were allegedly unbiased. Though we all knew the artists involved were probably left wing, they never told you who to vote for, they only said VOTE. That's the difference to me.
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Old 08-05-2004, 01:54 PM   #32
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On this same topic, while MTV and even Bono have gotten credit for getting Clinton elected, I don't think it was the main factor. George Bush I lost mainly because:

1. He backed out of his famous 'read my lips no new taxes' pledge

2. Ross Perot taking a large chunk of his fan base

3. A very poorly contructed campaign strategy that made him appear cheesy and even inept at times. I always felt Bush was presented wrong in the '92 campaign. It wasn't only him, he was fine in the '88 campaign. In '92 I would cringe and be embarrassed for him at times. Then after the election when his campaign manager married Clinton's, and it was untold until then they'd been together all along, I began to wonder if the stupid moves of the campaign were not intentional on her part in a plot with Clavell. You may call it a conspiracy theory, but I don't think it can be ruled out.
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Old 08-05-2004, 01:57 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by BluberryPoptart
That's the difference to me.
well, these are different times. much of the media has polarized politically. there was no fox news channel in the early 90s either.

you seem to be going on a wide ranging rant about, and im generalizing what would appear to me to be your ideology based on little information so please provide me some leeway, actions of the 'left' intended to specifically oust george bush from office.

keep in mind its a two way street. while many actions of the 'right' may not be as overt, they are not neccessarily any less influential. bush, as the sitting president, enjoys an enormous advantage if only because of the exposure given to the position by itself. add to this a geopolitical climate which some believe needs stability moreso than better policy, and those attempting to remove bush from office are going to attempt to do so via unconventional methods.

the right has lots of money-they'll organize their own shindigs in the coming months.

but most of all, dont let it annoy you so much.
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Old 08-05-2004, 01:59 PM   #34
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Originally posted by kobayashi


there was no fox news channel in the early 90s either.

Ah but there was CNN and the three networks, all very biased to the left. Now there's one that's the other way and it's a crime. Come on.

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the right has lots of money-they'll organize their own shindigs in the coming months.
I doubt it. Exactly who is going to play there, supporting 'the right' is career suicide in the entertainment industry
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Old 08-05-2004, 02:05 PM   #35
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Originally posted by BluberryPoptart


Ah but there was CNN and the three networks, all very biased to the left.
CNN was not biased to the left at the time. they are not now either but I would agree they have moved to the center in response to fox staking out the right.

i didn't mean shindigs in terms of a concert. they will get plenty of attention...thats what comes with money
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Old 08-05-2004, 02:10 PM   #36
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BluberryPoptart:
You call CNN left? Can you remember how they reported about the Iraq invasion in the first months?
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Old 08-05-2004, 02:19 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by BluberryPoptart
supporting 'the right' is career suicide in the entertainment industry
I dunno...Ted Nugent's done all right for himself. And these aren't musicians, but from what I understand, Kelsey Grammar and Mel Gibson aren't exactly left-leaning, and they've done pretty nicely for themselves, too.

Also, I've understood that one big reason Clinton won in '92 is because a lot of young people were voting then and felt they could relate more to Clinton than Bush.

Angela
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Old 08-05-2004, 02:34 PM   #38
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I have never understood the idea that artists, celebrities, etc shouldn't speak about politics because of who they are. It just makes no sence. Politics effects each and every one of us. We all do, or at least should, do our part in shaping politics. I hate the idea that politics should be left up to politicians! That idea is not only ignorant but it's also lazy. Politicians don't go to politician school. Their opinions on how things operate are not more qualified than yours or mine. In fact some celebrities have gone on to become politicians, oddly enough most of them republican. So why is it that an artist shouldn't be able to speak out against politician? This is probably the most important election in the last 30 years. Many believe that Bush is the worse president we've ever had, at least in our lifetimes. So yes they should do something about it. Just because someone doesn't like Vedder, or the Dixie Chicks, or Nugent, or Milli Vanilli it doesn't make the movement any less viable. The opinion that entertainers shouldn't dive into politics is about as equal to the opinion that women should stay in the kitchen.
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Old 08-05-2004, 02:37 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by Moonlit_Angel
Also, I've understood that one big reason Clinton won in '92 is because a lot of young people were voting then and felt they could relate more to Clinton than Bush.
yes, I'm sure you have heard that. Everyone has. That's why I posted my alternative list of what I consider to be the real factors. The MTV thing was a factor but nto the main one as music channels and forums would like to believe

Quote:
Originally posted by Klaus
BluberryPoptart:
You call CNN left? Can you remember how they reported about the Iraq invasion in the first months?
Of course they did. It was big news at the time, and to a left wing reporter, not covering the story would be censorship, so they had to!

Quote:
Originally posted by Koybayashi
CNN was not biased to the left at the time. they are not now either but I would agree they have moved to the center in response to fox staking out the right.

I hate to say bullshit, but bullshit. They were very well known for their left leaning slant even in the late 80's. I once thought of becoming a journalist, but people joked me, you'd never get hired, they only take left wing types. I have heard people for years say CNN tells stories the way they want the public to believe, from a liberal viewpoint. CNN has ALWAYS been left wing. hello? Ted Turner? Jane Fonda?

I also hear people every day complaining about the anti-Bush slant on the three networks. Someone told me just the other day he wished he had cable so he could hear something else but the left wing anti Bush propaganda spewed by the 3 networks.

So even if Fox is biased, we have a long way to go to balance things out.
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Old 08-05-2004, 02:47 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by BluberryPoptart

bullshit
you have a very different understanding of the political spectrum than a lot of others.
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Old 08-05-2004, 02:50 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by BluberryPoptart
So even if Fox is biased, we have a long way to go to balance things out.
How many liberals are on talk radio again?

Also, I don't deny that those other reasons you posted played a factor, but I'd just always understood the main reason to be the one I'd mentioned. If that's not the case, however, then...*Shrugs*.

Also, to BVS's post. .

Angela
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Old 08-05-2004, 02:52 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by kobayashi


you have a very different understanding of the political spectrum than a lot of others.
This is the FYM understatement of the year!!!
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Old 08-05-2004, 02:58 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by kobayashi


you have a very different understanding of the political spectrum than a lot of others.
and I'm sure that's a 'nice' way of calling me 'stupid' or 'wrong'

But I could say the same thing about you, as never in my life have I ever heard ANYONE BUT YOU say CNN was not biased to the left. They are, always have been, well known and accepted fact in the US.
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Old 08-05-2004, 03:04 PM   #44
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Not to throw another log on the fire, but I've noticed that CNN has started edging to the right ever since their ratings started slipping.

And whlle CNN may lean slightly left by American standards, they are relatively moderate. Mr. kobayashi may be speaking from this perspective.

Also I think Klaus was pointing out the kind of coverage CNN had during the Iraq invasion. If CNN is as left as Fox is to the right then CNN would have reported the war far differently.
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Old 08-05-2004, 03:04 PM   #45
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actually BP I was watching CNN the other day and they were being VERY hard on Kerry and my first thought was "oh boy, CNN is going the way of Fox!" So, kobayashi isnt the only one that feels that way.
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