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Old 04-22-2007, 09:13 PM   #16
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No, you were totally right. I was thinking of doing it previously when the post was originally made, but then got sucked into the back-to-back broadcast of Planet Earth on the Discovery Channel.
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Old 04-23-2007, 03:08 AM   #17
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While I don't agree with the premise that the cause is an over-emphasis for women in the education system (which statistically does appear to be a problem with underrepresentation - which may end up being harmful in twenty or thirty years) I think that the allusions to Fukuyama connecting these types of shooting martyrs and suicide bombers is a legitimate point, the mentality is similar as is the profile.
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Old 04-23-2007, 05:22 AM   #18
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I don't see the who "shamed by women" angle running here. Plenty of guys have been shot down, infact lets include everyone here.
Who liked someone who didn't liked you back?
Who has been teased by someone at high school?
Who felt alone and that no one understood you?
Who was stabbed in the back by friends over some issue?
Who was singled out, and made to feel awful?

I pretty much can guess that everyone has at least one of those things above happen to them as a child. ITs called life, and sometimes people get the shaft end, and others live so called "good lives" but everyone gets screwed now and then.
I was teased one year by this guy. He was horrible, and just used to laugh at point at me everytime he saw me. I never knew why and sue i cried about it, i cursed him, wished he got hit by a car and break a leg, but neve rin a million years did i think about getting a gun and shooting him and a shitload of other people.

I don't know enough about the psyche to start assuming or trying to explain Cho's actions, but I feel that people starting to put the blame on bullies (which i do think is a worthwhile issue in itself and definately lead to depression) or other factors misses the issue - he was way more then a put upon young adult.

I also don't like the fact that so called classmates of Cho's are coming out talking about 'hit lists' he supposedly made in high school and also saying 'they knew he'd do something like this' If he was so far gone in high school - what gives? Could lives have been saved?
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Old 04-23-2007, 08:36 AM   #19
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For me I think it comes down to the fact that we all have the final choice to make a certain decision and to act a certain way in response to external forces, unless we have a mental health issue that renders us completely incompetent in that regard. No one forces you to verbally abuse your 11 year old daughter in a voicemail, no matter how much you feel she has pushed you or her mother has. You are an adult man, you make the choice to use those words-that is one end of the spectrum.

And in the extreme Cho made that choice, absent any evidence that he was completely mentally incapacitated. No matter how others treated him and in spite of everything that went on in his head, he had the choice to get help rather than do what he did. At a certain point you have to become responsible rather than expecting others around you to see your problems and get you help for them.

It sure seems to me that he thoroughly prepared for what he did and it was very well planned. If only he had used that energy for good to get himself help, all those people would still be alive. If only. How many ticking time bombs like him are walking around? It's a frightening thought.
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Old 04-23-2007, 08:56 AM   #20
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Bully Rage: Common School-Shooter Misery-by Jessie Klein


"You have vandalized my heart, raped my soul and torched my conscience," the 23-year old Virginia Tech gunman, Cho Seung-Hui declared before killing 33 people on campus, including himself. "You thought it was one pathetic boy's life you were extinguishing. Thanks to you, I die like Jesus Christ to inspire generations of the weak and the defenseless people."

We need to listen to Cho's words and heed his concerns as he eerily echoes those of previous school shooters outraged at what they perceived as an unjust school hierarchy that used them as the pariahs to reinforce their own social status and power. Yet in this tragedy, as in past school shootings, authorities ignore the shooters' own explanations for their crimes, instead labeling the horror as merely an aberration. The mental illness that may well have plagued Cho is only a piece of a story. As we mourn the victims of the terror Cho wrought at Virginia Tech, we need also to ask how the bullying he experienced may have pushed him over the edge.

Contrary to the views of experts like Former Homeland Security Director, Tom Ridge, who said Cho was just "deranged," peers of many of the perpetrators of past similar crimes concede that those young men were bullied relentlessly. "Luke was picked on for as long as I can remember," explained a classmate of sixteen-year-old Luke Woodham, who killed his ex-girlfriend and her best friend and injured seven others in the 1997 school shooting in Pearl, Mississippi. "I do this on behalf of all kids who have been mistreated," Luke also declared.

While their reactions were heinous and reprehensible, these are not random, unprovoked acts of violence but rather a common grievance among many American students. Most react more quietly with suicide, depression, anxiety, truancy, and other more self-destructive responses.

Bullying instigated over 40 school shootings that took place during the past decade. Cho, like the other shooters, had difficulty with girls (stalking two who reported him to the police, speaking often of an "imaginary girlfriend," and making many uncomfortable by taking photos of their legs in classes). Like the other perpetrators, he was relentlessly bullied and angry at what he perceived as an unjust school hierarchy that privileges the wealthy. Cho was also bullied as a result of his race: "Go back to China" his peers said to him on one of the rare times he mustered up the courage to speak in class.

This dynamic was also in play at Columbine High School, which until Virginia Tech was the most infamous school shooting. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, age 17 and 18, also did not meet the narrow social expectations expected of them at school. They said they were treated like dirt by fellow students and declared their unwillingness to accept the bullying that seemed to have become a socially acceptable and daily form of violence: "Your children who have ridiculed me, who have chosen not to accept me, who have treated me like I am not worth their time are dead...." railed Eric.

In every school shooting, boys targeted girls who rejected them, boys who called them gay or otherwise belittled them, and other students at the top of the school's hierarchy--white, wealthy, and athletic--and then shot down other students in an effort to reinstate their injured masculinity.

In 1997 in West Paducah, Kentucky, 14-year-old Michael Carneal killed three girls, two of whom had rejected him. The following year, in Jonesboro, Arkansas, 13-year-old Mitchell Johnson and 11-year-old Andrew Golden shot their ex-girlfriends as well as two other girls who refused Mitchell's advances. Mitchell "vowed to kill all the girls who broke up with him" and threatened other girls for even speaking about these rejections. His ex-girlfriend complained that Mitchell was stalking her and had even hit her, but no one responded to her concerns. In Edinboro, Pennsylvania, that same year, 14-year-old Andrew Wurst targeted his ex-girlfriend at a school dance. He threatened her prior to the shooting when she first broke up with him. "Then I'll have to kill you," he said. At Columbine, Dylan and Eric were known to have big problems with girls. Dylan was so shy with girls that his parents paid him $250 to attend the Columbine High School Prom.

Boys are taught to believe that sexual interest from a girl is imperative to affirm their manhood. When boys are rejected by girls, it can bring up fears that they are not perceived by others as strong and powerful and can cause many to doubt their masculinity and heterosexuality. Headlines about Cho confirmed he struggled with these same concerns about his manhood.

Cho also raged against the rich, declaring his shooting a response to the "brats" and "snobs" at his school who were not satisfied with their "gold necklaces" and "Mercedes." Cho, whose parents ran a dry cleaner, seemed to believe that the relentless bullying he experienced was a result of his lower economic status and his race.

In high schools as well as colleges, popular kids tend to be wealthier and the boys at the top of school caste are often perceived as "jocks." Those that don't fit into these categories are often teased, or seen as relatively unimportant or even invisible. The boys who killed generally came from less wealthy backgrounds than those they targeted and almost all of them specifically aimed at those perceived as wealthy and popular: the "jocks and preps" in the school who were also the ones who bullied them. Like Luke, Michael, and Eric & Dylan and many others, sixteen-year old Evan Ramsey, who killed two students and injured two others in Alaska in 1997, had been picked on by popular football players, whom he targeted in his shooting after an argument with one of them.

Classmates at Columbine High School described how the jocks teased Eric and Dylan. "Everyone would make fun of them" said Ben Oakley from the soccer team. And senior Dustin Thurmon, from the Columbine wrestling team repeated what many others expected: "They should have been able to take it."

But children in our schools should not have to take it. Repeatedly, teachers, parents, and other adults and students say that bullying is a normal part of school life, a rite of passage, or simply a case of "boys will be boys" and sometimes "girls will be girls." Yet my research has traced bullying as a cause of almost every school shooting to date and other research shows that bullying can lead to suicide, severe depression and anxiety, truancy, and dropping-out of school. We need to find a way to stop bullying in schools and to refute assumptions that this behavior is normal.

Many shooters blamed adults for not protecting them from daily assaults. Eric Harris continued: "Teachers, parents, let this massacre be on your shoulders until the day you die." He echoed Evan's words who said after his shooting: "I figured since the principal and the dean weren't doing anything that was making any impression, that I was gonna have to do something, or else I was gonna keep on getting picked on."

These shootings are not just aberrations of deranged individuals. They are a reprehensible and unconscionable retaliation to common and real pain felt by students across our nation. Those who solely blame mental illness miss the real concerns about bullying these boys raise, troubles sadly shared by between 25 and 80% of students, according to various studies. We need to examine the persistently cruel school social hierarchies that so many young boys have declared the source of their unbearable misery. Time and again these boys beg for help from adults who either ignore the bullying or impose "zero tolerance" policies--suspending students for any hint of impending violence-- that tend to punish minor infractions which often miss the big picture. Our students must feel more supported and accepted by one another independent of race, class, and success with the opposite sex. Stalking was an issue in many of the school shooting cases, as well as sexual harassment, dating violence, and gay-bashing--some of which were issues at Virginia Tech. These concerns must be taken seriously and never written off as "normal bullying."

Now we flip-flop between ignoring bullying altogether, considering it "normal" and implementing "zero tolerance" policies that don't address the relationships among students and between students and adults. We need instead to create communities in schools and raise awareness of all parties involved including victims, bullies, and bystanders so that school hierarchies are dismantled and students treat each other with sincere appreciation and respect. European countries have implemented such community-oriented programs with national policies that already reduced bullying by fifty percent. The Netherlands launched such a program in over 10,000 schools that spread like wildfire through Europe. Here we are still using zero tolerance with zero evidence that any of it is working. We have no national policies and only scattered efforts that try to improve relationships between students and among students and adults. If we don't listen to the terrifying words sung repeatedly by each school shooter, we are sadly likely to see many more such horrors.

Jessie Klein is a sociology/criminology professor at Adelphi University. She worked in New York City public schools for 11 years as a teacher and social worker. Her forthcoming book is The Gender Police with Rutgers University Press. She is working on a second book, The Bully Society.
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Old 04-23-2007, 09:46 AM   #21
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The thing is, they can develop all kinds of elaborate academic theories of why he did this or that, but the bottom line is that this was a guy who was in all likelihood severely mentally ill and had certain predispositions to acting violently and inappropriately. A mentally healthy individual functioning in the same "feminized society" or whatever it was called, would have had a coping mechanism for dealing with this "feminized society" and would not have resorted to the same means.
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Old 04-23-2007, 09:54 AM   #22
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Yes, and he was deemed a danger to others and committed at one point. Many balls were dropped along the way in his case, but he also made that final decision. The bullied became the ultimate bullier. I certainly agree that bullying is a highly important issue that must be dealt with, but at the same time it's not an excuse.

The fact also remains that mental illness is still such a stigma and still avoided and shoved under the rug. If Cho had a physical illness, would it have gone all that time without being resolved properly?
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Old 04-23-2007, 10:08 AM   #23
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originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
Bully Rage: Common School-Shooter Misery-by Jessie Klein


"You have vandalized my heart, raped my soul and torched my conscience," the 23-year old Virginia Tech gunman, Cho Seung-Hui declared before killing 33 people on campus, including himself. "You thought it was one pathetic boy's life you were extinguishing. Thanks to you, I die like Jesus Christ to inspire generations of the weak and the defenseless people."

We need to listen to Cho's words and heed his concerns as he eerily echoes those of previous school shooters outraged at what they perceived as an unjust school hierarchy that used them as the pariahs to reinforce their own social status and power. Yet in this tragedy, as in past school shootings, authorities ignore the shooters' own explanations for their crimes, instead labeling the horror as merely an aberration. The mental illness that may well have plagued Cho is only a piece of a story. As we mourn the victims of the terror Cho wrought at Virginia Tech, we need also to ask how the bullying he experienced may have pushed him over the edge.

Contrary to the views of experts like Former Homeland Security Director, Tom Ridge, who said Cho was just "deranged," peers of many of the perpetrators of past similar crimes concede that those young men were bullied relentlessly. "Luke was picked on for as long as I can remember," explained a classmate of sixteen-year-old Luke Woodham, who killed his ex-girlfriend and her best friend and injured seven others in the 1997 school shooting in Pearl, Mississippi. "I do this on behalf of all kids who have been mistreated," Luke also declared.

While their reactions were heinous and reprehensible, these are not random, unprovoked acts of violence but rather a common grievance among many American students. Most react more quietly with suicide, depression, anxiety, truancy, and other more self-destructive responses.

Bullying instigated over 40 school shootings that took place during the past decade. Cho, like the other shooters, had difficulty with girls (stalking two who reported him to the police, speaking often of an "imaginary girlfriend," and making many uncomfortable by taking photos of their legs in classes). Like the other perpetrators, he was relentlessly bullied and angry at what he perceived as an unjust school hierarchy that privileges the wealthy. Cho was also bullied as a result of his race: "Go back to China" his peers said to him on one of the rare times he mustered up the courage to speak in class.

This dynamic was also in play at Columbine High School, which until Virginia Tech was the most infamous school shooting. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, age 17 and 18, also did not meet the narrow social expectations expected of them at school. They said they were treated like dirt by fellow students and declared their unwillingness to accept the bullying that seemed to have become a socially acceptable and daily form of violence: "Your children who have ridiculed me, who have chosen not to accept me, who have treated me like I am not worth their time are dead...." railed Eric.

In every school shooting, boys targeted girls who rejected them, boys who called them gay or otherwise belittled them, and other students at the top of the school's hierarchy--white, wealthy, and athletic--and then shot down other students in an effort to reinstate their injured masculinity.

In 1997 in West Paducah, Kentucky, 14-year-old Michael Carneal killed three girls, two of whom had rejected him. The following year, in Jonesboro, Arkansas, 13-year-old Mitchell Johnson and 11-year-old Andrew Golden shot their ex-girlfriends as well as two other girls who refused Mitchell's advances. Mitchell "vowed to kill all the girls who broke up with him" and threatened other girls for even speaking about these rejections. His ex-girlfriend complained that Mitchell was stalking her and had even hit her, but no one responded to her concerns. In Edinboro, Pennsylvania, that same year, 14-year-old Andrew Wurst targeted his ex-girlfriend at a school dance. He threatened her prior to the shooting when she first broke up with him. "Then I'll have to kill you," he said. At Columbine, Dylan and Eric were known to have big problems with girls. Dylan was so shy with girls that his parents paid him $250 to attend the Columbine High School Prom.

Boys are taught to believe that sexual interest from a girl is imperative to affirm their manhood. When boys are rejected by girls, it can bring up fears that they are not perceived by others as strong and powerful and can cause many to doubt their masculinity and heterosexuality. Headlines about Cho confirmed he struggled with these same concerns about his manhood.

Cho also raged against the rich, declaring his shooting a response to the "brats" and "snobs" at his school who were not satisfied with their "gold necklaces" and "Mercedes." Cho, whose parents ran a dry cleaner, seemed to believe that the relentless bullying he experienced was a result of his lower economic status and his race.

In high schools as well as colleges, popular kids tend to be wealthier and the boys at the top of school caste are often perceived as "jocks." Those that don't fit into these categories are often teased, or seen as relatively unimportant or even invisible. The boys who killed generally came from less wealthy backgrounds than those they targeted and almost all of them specifically aimed at those perceived as wealthy and popular: the "jocks and preps" in the school who were also the ones who bullied them. Like Luke, Michael, and Eric & Dylan and many others, sixteen-year old Evan Ramsey, who killed two students and injured two others in Alaska in 1997, had been picked on by popular football players, whom he targeted in his shooting after an argument with one of them.

Classmates at Columbine High School described how the jocks teased Eric and Dylan. "Everyone would make fun of them" said Ben Oakley from the soccer team. And senior Dustin Thurmon, from the Columbine wrestling team repeated what many others expected: "They should have been able to take it."

But children in our schools should not have to take it. Repeatedly, teachers, parents, and other adults and students say that bullying is a normal part of school life, a rite of passage, or simply a case of "boys will be boys" and sometimes "girls will be girls." Yet my research has traced bullying as a cause of almost every school shooting to date and other research shows that bullying can lead to suicide, severe depression and anxiety, truancy, and dropping-out of school. We need to find a way to stop bullying in schools and to refute assumptions that this behavior is normal.

Many shooters blamed adults for not protecting them from daily assaults. Eric Harris continued: "Teachers, parents, let this massacre be on your shoulders until the day you die." He echoed Evan's words who said after his shooting: "I figured since the principal and the dean weren't doing anything that was making any impression, that I was gonna have to do something, or else I was gonna keep on getting picked on."

These shootings are not just aberrations of deranged individuals. They are a reprehensible and unconscionable retaliation to common and real pain felt by students across our nation. Those who solely blame mental illness miss the real concerns about bullying these boys raise, troubles sadly shared by between 25 and 80% of students, according to various studies. We need to examine the persistently cruel school social hierarchies that so many young boys have declared the source of their unbearable misery. Time and again these boys beg for help from adults who either ignore the bullying or impose "zero tolerance" policies--suspending students for any hint of impending violence-- that tend to punish minor infractions which often miss the big picture. Our students must feel more supported and accepted by one another independent of race, class, and success with the opposite sex. Stalking was an issue in many of the school shooting cases, as well as sexual harassment, dating violence, and gay-bashing--some of which were issues at Virginia Tech. These concerns must be taken seriously and never written off as "normal bullying."

Now we flip-flop between ignoring bullying altogether, considering it "normal" and implementing "zero tolerance" policies that don't address the relationships among students and between students and adults. We need instead to create communities in schools and raise awareness of all parties involved including victims, bullies, and bystanders so that school hierarchies are dismantled and students treat each other with sincere appreciation and respect. European countries have implemented such community-oriented programs with national policies that already reduced bullying by fifty percent. The Netherlands launched such a program in over 10,000 schools that spread like wildfire through Europe. Here we are still using zero tolerance with zero evidence that any of it is working. We have no national policies and only scattered efforts that try to improve relationships between students and among students and adults. If we don't listen to the terrifying words sung repeatedly by each school shooter, we are sadly likely to see many more such horrors.

Jessie Klein is a sociology/criminology professor at Adelphi University. She worked in New York City public schools for 11 years as a teacher and social worker. Her forthcoming book is The Gender Police with Rutgers University Press. She is working on a second book, The Bully Society.



^I agree that bullying is and has been a problem in elementary, high schools, colleges and universities everywhere. It is wrong and in a perfect world should not happen.

However, we do not live in a perfect society. As with anything in life there are choices all around. People may say they have no choice but there always is, and there always will be.

Allow me to explain a little bit about myself. I am a nice guy. I have been teased relentlessly throughout my childhood right up until high school. People would take my "niceness" as a sign of weakness but you know what? I didn't really care. I had a choice: I would either let the teasing bother me or turn the teasing and bullying into something positive by using it as a character-building exercise.

And that's exactly what happened. I was able to grow a thicker skin, so to speak, which has served me well in life thus far. I used to think: "If these people are taking time out of their lives to tease and bully me then I really feel sorry for them. They're the ones with no lives".

This is easier said than done, as I know how hard it is to cope with it. But if these students who kill because of the relentless teasing and bullying hold on a little while longer they will see that life eventually gets better. It invariably always does. That's the beauty of life, that no matter how hopeless things seem tomorrow is a different day, with the potential to be better.

It's all about staying positive. It reminds me of a sports analogy: rather than retaliating back at an opponent by physical means, the best retaliation is by a great goal, or a fantastic defensive play. By this I mean that the best way to get back at a bully is to make something out of yourself, to tell them 'Look, I'm here now and you're still there.'

This may sound overly simplistic and quasi-utopian but that's me. I'm an extermely positive person who believes whole-heartedly in the old adage: When life gives you lemons, make lemonade.

Again, easier said than done, but it's worked for me so I don't see why it shouldn't work for someone else.

That's my 0.02 cents.
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Old 04-24-2007, 02:22 AM   #24
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As i said before - everyone is bullied at some day in their lives - some more then others, and while agree bullying is an issue in how it is dealt with, it cannot be the main reason someone goes on a shooting spree - plenty of people have been rejected by the oppisite sex, we don't then go and shoot them for it. I don't understand the intent in that article, are girls supposed to go out with any boy just incase he gets all upset and shoots them? I mean come on - its a cop out i feel. There are ways to deal with bullying, and i do believe the people who have gone and taken other people's lives did it because they wanted fame - they wanted notoriety. I mean we sensationalise every murder spree, we have books and movies and TV shows dedicated to murders and assults, and on them, the perpatrators are seen as cocky and above the law etc, and to some people that is appealing.

Sadly there are always going to ber some bad apples in a bunch - its human to have people who can't fit in, and buck the trends, and we just need to find other ways to deal with it (such as no guns in citizen hands for starters, but there is another thread for that)
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Old 04-24-2007, 11:37 AM   #25
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Why aren't there female perpetrators of this type of murder? Have there been any of this exact school/college type?
Not where a female student murdered multiple people at her own school, that I've ever heard of. There have been a couple female spree killers who targeted elementary schools (Laurie Dann and Brenda Ann Spencer) and one who targeted a college (Jillian Robbins) but none of them had any personal connection to those schools, so far as I know. And there have also been, I think, about a half-dozen incidents where a female student shot one other student at school in the context of some dispute.

In my anecdotal experience, it's not particularly uncommon for teenage girls who feel bullied, roundly ignored, or otherwise pissed on by many of their fellow students to fantasize about seeing their 'oppressors' (and particularly the popular kids of the opposite sex--symbolically the ultimate arbiters of your status) violently humiliated or killed. Those kinds of fantasies may be more common in boys, but I tend to see the conversion of resentment and rage at being socially humiliated into violent revenge fantasies as a pretty 'generically human' thing. Same with the simultaneous contempt for, yet dread of becoming, whatever the stereotypically most 'debased' form of your gender is--the boy who fails to be manly, the girl who fails to be desirable (while ironically despising their most visible opposites, the 'jocks' and 'preps', at the same time). What does seem to be the case statistically is that boys and young men are far more likely than girls and young women to wind up acting out such fantasies (though "far more" is very, very relative--we're talking about a truly tiny group of people here). It should probably also be noted that they're more than 4 times as likely to commit suicide as well (and to use violent methods to do so).

It may well be true that social and cultural factors involving gender feed into this; one theme all three of the articles posted seem to be getting at is that males in our society are socialized to crave admiration and respect, and that it's perhaps a bit too easy to 'sublimate' that into a craving merely to inspire fear--if the former fails, the latter will do well enough. The female socialization counterpart to this, I suppose, would be craving affection and desire, which inspiring fear (and for that matter gilding it with violent 'martyrdom') can't effect in any sense. So it may be reasonable to argue that such revenge fantasies as females have are far less likely to get dangerously entangled with their drive to achieve gender 'validation'. But of course there are also neurobiological arguments you could make involving hormonal differences, 'wiring' differences etc. too.

In any case, while it's obviously a good thing if incidents like this inspire more concerted action to address issues like bullying in schools, raising popular awareness of the warning signs of mental illness and so forth, I agree with anitram that Cho Seung-Hui probably makes a poor basis for generalizations about other young adult males' problems. Yes, he was apparently both bullied and neglected by his peers, and doubtless many of his feelings fell into the category of fairly 'typical' responses to that. But there are also strong indications that he was at least intermittently psychotic and subject to bizarre delusions about the world around him, and by definition anyone who has such problems lacks a normal grasp of reality, making them a poor basis for broader conclusions. That he was virtually mute and seemingly "emotionless" from early childhood on is a further indicator that something was seriously wrong before he ever set foot in a school.
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Old 04-24-2007, 05:39 PM   #26
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That he was virtually mute and seemingly "emotionless" from early childhood on is a further indicator that something was seriously wrong before he ever set foot in a school.
Exactly. I wonder if his family not getting any professional help for that had anything to do with their cultural background. I don't mean to say anything negative about their culture, obviously there is still is an overall stigma about mental health issues that crosses all cultural lines. Maybe it has more to do with families thinking a child is just shy or awkward, etc. and will eventually outgrow it. But they must have seen that he still had these issues as a teen and adult. I don't mean to blame them, I just wonder. Klebold and Harris, their parents seemed oblivious too.

People need to truly see mental health issues just as they do physical health issues and try to act accordingly. Maybe that's one lesson we can all learn from this.
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Old 04-25-2007, 10:16 AM   #27
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BLACKSBURG, Virginia (AP) -- Computer files, cell phone records and e-mails have yielded no evidence about what triggered Seung-Hui Cho's massacre at Virginia Tech last week and how he chose his 32 victims.

In an interview Tuesday with The Associated Press, State Police Superintendent Col. W. Steven Flaherty said authorities have found no evidence that could begin to explain the massacre that ended when Cho took his own life.

Authorities also have no link between the 23-year-old loner and his victims.

"We certainly don't have any one motive that we are pursuing at this particular time, or that we have been able to pull together and formulate," Flaherty said. "It's frustrating because it's so personal, because we see the families and see the communities suffering, and we see they want answers."

Flaherty spoke to the AP after spending the day in meetings with investigators to prepare for a Wednesday news conference about what authorities have uncovered.

Flaherty, who is overseeing the investigative team looking at the shootings, said police also have been unable to answer one of the case's most vexing questions: Why the spree began at the West Ambler Johnston dorm, and why 18-year-old freshman Emily Hilscher was the first victim.

Police have searched Hilscher's e-mails and phone records looking for a link. While Flaherty would not discuss exactly what police found, he said neither Cho's nor Hilscher's records have revealed a connection.

Flaherty said there was also no link to 22-year-old senior Ryan Clark, who was also killed at the dorm. Nor do investigators know why Cho, an English major, selected Norris Hall -- a building that is home primarily to engineering offices -- to culminate his attack. Cho killed 30 people there before taking his own life.

Frustrating their effort, Flaherty said, is the fact that Cho revealed himself to so few people. Even family members have said they rarely heard him speak.

"I guess the thing that is most startling to me, I say startling, surprising, is a young man who's 23 years old, that's been here for a while, that seemed to not know anybody," he said.

Gov. Timothy M. Kaine met with Korean-American leaders to assure them that Virginians do not hold people of Korean descent responsible for the tragedy. Cho was a South Korean immigrant who came to the U.S. at about age 8 and was raised in suburban Washington.

"I can assure you that no one in Virginia -- no one in Virginia -- views the Korean community as culpable in this incident in the least degree," Kaine said.

He said state officials will watch for any reprisals against Korean Americans but that none have been reported.

The Virginia Korean leaders asked Kaine to boost mental-health funding for immigrants and their families.
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Old 04-25-2007, 10:27 AM   #28
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wow...that is really eerie that they have yet to find a link between him and emily. but then again, one of his roommates said he thinks that cho had a few relationships "in his head." but that is really random. if they didn't have a class together then how did he know her? how did he get into that dorm??? the dorms are locked from 10pm-10am, and one can only get in if he/she lives there and swipes his/her card. if you don't live there your card doesn't work.

as for ryan, he lived right next to her...and was the ra. i'm surprised the police haven't concluded that he was just responding to a commotion. it seems pretty obvious to the rest of us.
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Old 04-25-2007, 10:29 AM   #29
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Could he have tailgated someone in the door? our building for work is secure, but we've had instances of people tailgating others in.
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Old 04-25-2007, 10:33 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by snowbunny00774
Could he have tailgated someone in the door? our building for work is secure, but we've had instances of people tailgating others in.
that is definitely a possibility. i'm surprised that the person who did let him in hasn't come forward...unless it was emily herself. but still, that leaves the question of why he went to waj in the first place.
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