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Old 10-15-2007, 04:23 PM   #151
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Quote:
Originally posted by unico
there was one guy who was an atheist...he posted awhile ago why he was against same-sex marriage (or couples for that matter). i think his name was AussieU2fanman. I haven't seen him post in ages.
Yeah, because I've never seen one. All the arguments about it I see are religious.

It's not like any of them are going to make sense.
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Old 10-15-2007, 04:33 PM   #152
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Originally posted by martha
So. Has INDY abandoned his thread?
Not to bum your day, but this will be my last post until the end of the week due to work. Yes I know, here, let me hand you a figurative tissue to wipe away that tear.

So, for a whole week, this thread can now be the echo chamber that so many of you obviously feel more comfortable with

with


with



with





with







with










with.
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Old 10-15-2007, 04:34 PM   #153
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Old 10-15-2007, 04:46 PM   #154
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Quote:
Originally posted by INDY500


Not to bum your day, but this will be my last post until the end of the week due to work. Yes I know, here, let me hand you a figurative tissue to wipe away that tear.

So, for a whole week, this thread can now be the echo chamber that so many of you obviously feel more comfortable with



while i can appreciate how difficult it is to be virtually alone, self-pity isn't going to win you any arguments or converts or do anyting other than get people to write you off even more. i've been answering you directly and challenging you direclty -- hardly echoing the sentiments of others. and i've received very little from you in return. is it easier to write off gay people to other straight people, than it is to essentially tell a gay person that he can go fuck off to his face?

if you've got such a legitimate position, then you should have no problems defending it?

or could it be the position is flawed. can you countenance that?
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Old 10-15-2007, 04:47 PM   #155
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Let me clarify my postion and why I posted the article.

First the article, several articles today actually say that marriage could be changed in the not too near future:

Forecast: Sex and Marriage With Robots by 2050

That said, I think it is wrong. Several ppl -straight ppl *could claim it is their right to marry a robot, cyborg, half human/half machine, because if you don't let them-you're infringing on their "civil rights".

My position is that marriage is between a man and a woman, how it is currently defined.

That an American has civil rights doesn't mean:

polygamous marriages should be legalized;
homosexual marrigaes should be legalized;
bestality marriages should be legalized;
*and*
straight or gay marriages to robots in the future should be legalized or even considered.

To keep things simple, marriage is between and man and a woman.

If you want to form some sort of "legal union" between different from marriage, call it what it is-but is not marriage.

That doesn't make me a bigot, only somebody that defines marriage for what it is-a union between a man and a woman.

dbs
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Old 10-15-2007, 04:48 PM   #156
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Diamond -

Why are robots equal to homosexuals?
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Old 10-15-2007, 04:54 PM   #157
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
[B]To keep things simple, marriage is between and man and a woman.

how is this any different than saying, "to keep things simple, marrige is between whites and whites, and blacks and blacks; no intermingling, it gets confusing."





[q]If you want to form some sort of "legal union" between different from marriage, call it what it is-but is not marriage.[/q]

so, for this, we can infer that you and Hillary and Obama and the rest of the Democrats hold the same position -- that you're for equal rights, but you wish to retain the word "marriage" for men and women.

that's fine. so, question: what about my transgendered acquaintance? the legal man who still has a vagina who's marrying a woman? is that a marriage? the state seems to think so.

and what's so precious about the word? what is it, for you, that makes a marriage?

this is what i want from Diamond and INDY:

give me the characteristics of what makes a marriage, and then tell me how and why gay people do not share these characteristics, and you're going to have to tell me why you would include infertile people, those who chosoe not to have children, and post-menopausal women in this group, but not gay peole.


[q]That doesn't make me a bigot, only somebody that defines marriage for what it is-a union between a man and a woman.[/q]

is it hard to see that the insistence upon keeping the "purity" of a union is a form of discrimination? for someone who wrote a paper decrying racism, you're operating on the same assumptions as racists do. they'd say there's something fundamentally wrong about a black/white pairing. that it's unnatural. that the races shouldn't coexist, and they'd point to the fact that the vast majority of people marry within their own race. that's how it's always been.
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Old 10-15-2007, 04:55 PM   #158
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
That an American has civil rights doesn't mean:

polygamous marriages should be legalized;
homosexual marrigaes should be legalized;
bestality marriages should be legalized;
*and*
straight or gay marriages to robots in the future should be legalized or even considered.



what does homosexuality have in common with polygamy, bestiality, and robots?
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Old 10-15-2007, 04:56 PM   #159
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all can not be called "marriage" legally.
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Old 10-15-2007, 04:57 PM   #160
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
all can not be called "marriage" legally.


upon the basis of what rationale?

other than "because i said so" -- why is it in *anyone's* interest to prevent such things?
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Old 10-15-2007, 05:11 PM   #161
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there were laws that held inter-racial marriage illegal

and those that were against it cited that marriage was
between a man and woman of the same race

and that allowing mixed - race marriages would be a ruination of the culture

what would be next man / animal marriages?


this did not seem unreasonable when segregation was the law
when minorities were prevented from voting and having access to public accommodations, they were seen and treated as less than full citizens


well, as civil rights became the law of the land
these laws against mixed-race marriages gradually fell by the way side
and rightfully so



now we are at a point where gay people are getting the same rights and protections in many ways as "the rest of us"


just as a black person and a white person are equal citizens (individuals) of the united states they should and do have a right to marry each other


a person
and a:

1. horse,
2. machine
3. multiple persons (plural marriage)

are not individuals with equal rights deserving the right to marry each other

two gay people are citizens and should have all rights except this one? why all the other rights? their behavior is no longer illegal? anymore than mixed race dating is illegal anymore

to introduce these examples into the argument may not make a person a bigot

but it does suggest a "bias" against gay people
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Old 10-15-2007, 05:19 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond


My position is that marriage is between a man and a woman, how it is currently defined.

That an American has civil rights doesn't mean:

polygamous marriages should be legalized;
homosexual marrigaes should be legalized;
bestality marriages should be legalized;
*and*
straight or gay marriages to robots in the future should be legalized or even considered.

To keep things simple, marriage is between and man and a woman.

If you want to form some sort of "legal union" between different from marriage, call it what it is-but is not marriage.

That doesn't make me a bigot, only somebody that defines marriage for what it is-a union between a man and a woman.

Which of those groups you listed are two entities which can consent and commit to each other?

How is it that your definition of exclusion not bigoted?

Answer those two questions for me.
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Old 10-15-2007, 05:19 PM   #163
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When desperate why do some people revert to the race card?
Whose against interracial marriges in this thread?

dbs
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Old 10-15-2007, 05:20 PM   #164
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
two gay people are citizens and should have all rights except this one? why all the other rights? their behavior is no longer illegal? anymore than mixed race dating is illegal anymore


this gets at an important point that bears repeating.

a polygamist might wish to marry many women, but he always has the right to marry one.

a pedophile might wish to marry a 12 year old (and 40 years ago, he could), but he always has the right to marry an adult female.

a beastality person (don't know the noun) might wish to marry a horse, but he always has the right to marry an adult female.

horses and children also cannot consent. neither, i imagine, could a robot.

so this is why it really is a civil rights issue.

a gay person cannot authentically marry a straight person. yes, of course they can get married, and it happens all the time, but there's either a level of sometimes dangerous deception in the relationship (one partner doesn't know), the relationship is headed for painful disaster (think Michael Huffington), or both parties know and the marriage truly is for show (Liza and David Guest). all of these things strike me as a far, far greater threat to marriage than anything else.

what is a gay person to do?
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Old 10-15-2007, 05:21 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
When desperate why do some people revert to the race card?
Whose against interracial marriges in this thread?


i am trying to show you that your objection to gay marriage is absolutely no different than a racist's objection to interracial marriage.
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