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Old 11-06-2008, 09:18 PM   #901
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The Bishop could marry them, my wife who is not LDS was married to me by my Bishop, (Pastor).

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I dated a Mormon girl once and she told me if we got married that my family wouldn't be able to take part in a certain section of the wedding(because they aren't Mormon), something about going into another room... am I remembering that right?
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Old 11-06-2008, 09:23 PM   #902
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I dated a Mormon girl once and she told me if we got married that my family wouldn't be able to take part in a certain section of the wedding(because they aren't Mormon), something about going into another room... am I remembering that right?
That's if you want to wed in the Temple for all time and eternity.

My wife I think wants to be married for me for just this life I think.

Our Bishop married us, it was a great wedding attended by both LDS and Non LDS friends and family.

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Old 11-06-2008, 09:25 PM   #903
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Wow. That's gotta be an awkward conversation. "Look Diamond, I love you and all, but let's see how this life time goes before we talk about eternity."

Talk about leaving yourself an out.
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Old 11-06-2008, 09:25 PM   #904
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Would the bishop marry two non LDSers?
Yes, he's a Pastor.

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Old 11-06-2008, 09:29 PM   #905
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That's if you want to wed in the Temple for all time and eternity.

My wife I think wants to be married for me for just this life I think.
Fascinating... I remember her mentioning being married for eternity, and back then I thought that was an incredibly romantic notion. But I can't imagine the lonliness if god forbid something happens early in life and one spouse dies. I'm assuming you can't remarry, or is that allowed?

But I didn't realize you had a choice. Wow, that has to be an akward conversation when one wants to and the other doesn't... What I'm good enough for life but not eternity?
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Old 11-06-2008, 09:29 PM   #906
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Wow. That's gotta be an awkward conversation. "Look Diamond, I love you and all, but let's see how this life time goes before we talk about eternity."

Talk about leaving yourself an out.
Well, she's a smart cookie.

I wouldn't want her to be w me in heaven unless she really wanted to be w me.

We can go to the Temple later if she wants and have it solemnized there for all time and eternity.

It's her move.



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Old 11-06-2008, 09:31 PM   #907
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Fascinating... I remember her mentioning being married for eternity, and back then I thought that was an incredibly romantic notion. But I can't imagine the lonliness if god forbid something happens early in life and one spouse dies. I'm assuming you can't remarry, or is that allowed?

But I didn't realize you had a choice. Wow, that has to be an akward conversation when one wants to and the other doesn't...
You can remarry absolutely, usually you marry the 2nd spouse for time only.

Yes LDS people are known to be peculiar sappy romantics.

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Old 11-06-2008, 10:52 PM   #908
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please, straights, everyone is so nice and supportive to me and of me in my life, help me out here. i don't know how you people *really* think and talk when i'm not around.
Irvine, I haven't weighed in on this issue so here it is.
I'm 54 years old and I will tell you that your time is coming. Having lived in the South all my life I've seen first hand how change can happen.
It's the next generation. The young are educating the old and that is more powerful than trying to change stereotypes.
The gay rights issue is going to still take some time (shorter in some parts of the country) but it will come about, I assure you.
There are plenty of people, myself included who cannot abide by what is being said and done to people who are as much a part of the human race as anyone else, and deserve their rights as much.
I/we are working for you too.
I'm not trying to patronize you and I hope it doesn't come across that way, but it was really difficult to talk to people about electing a black man over a white one and to make them focus on what really was important.
It was a racial thing pure and simple.
Your fight is almost the same but it involves sex, to most homophobes, and not rights.
Gay rights are much harder for people to come to terms with. There really is no real reason to be afraid of gays, and I have heard all the arguments, fear and taunts directed against women, Africian Americans and other races or religions all my life.
Look how far they've come.
There's still a long way to go but it's getting there.

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Uhhh, even my parents where so enraged at the thought of gays marrying, then again my mother is convinced that Obama is a Muslim and/or the Antichrist. Seriously, the last couple months have put into perspective how little in common I have with my family.
I had a confrontation with a guy that I work with today. He has signs all over his truck that said RIP USA. OBAMA is a MUSLIM. WE ARE NOW OFFICALLY a MUSLIM NATION now. I walked up to him and ask him. Are YOU CRAZY? Do you think that millions of people believe this drivel? Do you think I'm Muslim now? Just How! stupid are you? Where did you get this information? Quote me one educated source and I will read it.
I'm not playing anymore. People have to be aware that what they say - has to have substance.
He said, and I quote, "well from what I've heard..." I told him that was his first mistake, believing everything he hears. Then I referred him to some sources he could get the truth. He was stumped.
We've always had a nice report to each other and talked about work things on break, etc. He did not see this coming.
There was another co-worker out there too but she didn't say much and I think she was like minded but paused when I ask about him thinking I am Muslim.
seriously? not all Muslims are extremist. But he thinks they are.

I know this is long but I had alot to say.
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Old 11-06-2008, 11:12 PM   #909
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according to my mother "the only reason gays want to get married is so that they can adopt kids so that they can make them gay since they can't reproduce"
My mother is OLD old school she never misses mass, prays the rosary every night and is the most uptight person I know. Yet I wasn't all that surprised that she went against the church and voted No on 8, she was pretty mad it passed. I don't think she knows of a single person in her life that is gay but she felt strongly that it wasn't her right to tell people who they can love. In particular she thought it was ridiculous to think that only a man and a woman were capable of properly raising a child.

I passed a car on my way home from work this evening painted with "thank you for voting yes on proposition 8. God loves you and so do I" She had Tennessee plates I wanted to tell her to go home.
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Old 11-06-2008, 11:13 PM   #910
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i agree with that. it does suggest a level of insecurity, if not cowardice, in their own arguments.
I don't know about INDY, but I've never been a consistent poster in FYM. I have a tremendous amount on my plate, and oftentimes I don't feel like going back over ten pages of often inciting comments (all supporters of Prop 8 are bigots, etc) to see if any are germaine to me. I've posted numerous times on this issue, always trying to be respectful of other posters. So telling me to "man up" because I haven't gotten back on the wheel is a bit ridiculous.

But thanks for your earlier post, Irvine. We may indeed disagree on this issue, but I think we can both agree that our back-and-forth on this issue has been one of substance.
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Old 11-07-2008, 12:03 AM   #911
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I passed a car on my way home from work this evening painted with "thank you for voting yes on proposition 8. God loves you and so do I" She had Tennessee plates I wanted to tell her to go home.


this is what i just don't understand.

nathan, INDY -- can you understand just how incredibly hurtful the entire "Yes" campaign was, and how incredibly hurtful *all* of the "arguments" against same-sex marriage are?

you see, it's not so much that marriage is something i lie awake at night dreaming about, like it's some kind of proverbial pony. i don't stare out the window at the rain and wish to be married. in fact, it's likely that something along the lines of same-sex marriage will surface in the District of Columbia in 2009. were it to pass (and it's likely it would -- yes, this is a very black city, but it's also a very liberal city, and a very gay city), i don't think that Memphis and i would be first in line. i expect that one day, probably not too far away, we'll do something official.

so it's not so much that i pine for marriage, it's that the opposition (and their rationalizations) to my getting married guts me. it's easier today than ever before, but i don't think straight people truly understand just what an act of courage it is to actually come out. it's terrifying for most, and it's a long process of questioning your own self worth after growing up where "that's so gay" and "faggot" and "dyke" and "cocksucker" are commonplace playground insults. you're terrified that you'll be rejected by friends and family, and you're terrified that maybe, deep down, there is something wrong with you.

and the "Yes" crowd, the religious bigots, what they do is cut straight to these deep down fears and anxieties and they tell you, "you know what? your family should reject you, your friends should reject you, there really is something wrong with you, you have no place here, you have no place at the table, no matter what you do with your life, it is negated by the very fact that you are and always will be nothing more than a faggot in my eyes." that is the message that comes across in those cheery yellow signs with the blue children holding hands -- like they're forming a human chain of disapproval and exclusion and telling you to get the hell out and stay out of their sight, because they're disgusted by your very existence.

it's like someone has taken all the work that you've done in being honest with yourself, and accepting yourself, accepting that, yes, you are a bit different, and, yes, your life will be a bit different, and, yes, you might stand out in a crowd, and they've crushed it. and enjoyed crushing it.

it is no different than racism. it is no different than sexism.

and it's all wrapped up in garbage, anti-intellectual "arguments" about "activist judges" and what's "natural" and then topped with a big bow of sanctimony.

i remain unchanged in my opinion that, at the root of all, and i do mean *all*, "arguments" against same-sex marriage are rooted in bigotry. it's dressed up in sanctimony and "children" garbage, but it's all window dressing to a deeply held conviction, one that isn't even religious, a conviction that uses religion as an excuse, as invalid an excuse as the rest of the "children/schools" garbage.

no, there aren't perfect parallels to the civil rights movement of the 50s and 60s, but in 20 years time, the "Yes" crowd will be remembered as the Bull Connors and Strom Thurmond and George Wallace's of this particular age.
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Old 11-07-2008, 12:05 AM   #912
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Old 11-07-2008, 12:12 AM   #913
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nathan, INDY -- can you understand just how incredibly hurtful the entire "Yes" campaign was, and how incredibly hurtful *all* of the "arguments" against same-sex marriage are?
Emotions are what separates liberals from conservatives. Clearly, even if both understood, which is doubtful at this point, I'm not entirely sure if they'd care. Ideology is greater than people, and the ends justify the means.
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Old 11-07-2008, 12:27 AM   #914
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Emotions are what separates liberals from conservatives. Clearly, even if both understood, which is doubtful at this point, I'm not entirely sure if they'd care. Ideology is greater than people, and the ends justify the means.


so what do we do?

we continuously lose on this issue at the ballot box, often big-time.

granted, in nearly any other year, and certainly without the massive influence of the Mormon church, Prop 8 would not have passed.

but it did. the campaign obviously worked.

how do we fight back? we are not winning this argument, even though there is no argument on the other side. how and why are we so easily defeated?

anyone who believes in the basic dignity and equality of gay citizens needs to ask themselves these questions.
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Old 11-07-2008, 12:37 AM   #915
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this is what i just don't understand.

nathan, INDY -- can you understand just how incredibly hurtful the entire "Yes" campaign was, and how incredibly hurtful *all* of the "arguments" against same-sex marriage are?

you see, it's not so much that marriage is something i lie awake at night dreaming about, like it's some kind of proverbial pony. i don't stare out the window at the rain and wish to be married. in fact, it's likely that something along the lines of same-sex marriage will surface in the District of Columbia in 2009. were it to pass (and it's likely it would -- yes, this is a very black city, but it's also a very liberal city, and a very gay city), i don't think that Memphis and i would be first in line. i expect that one day, probably not too far away, we'll do something official.

<clip>
Great post irvine.


I have a question for the "Yes" supporters, have any of you actually attended any sort of ceremony, marriage or civil union, between two homosexual people? (EDIT: Of course, I'm sure the answer is no...)

I had the chance to go to my boss' "wedding" (in Minnesota, so no laws on the books recognizing it as legal) ceremony over the summer, and it was honestly one of the most beautiful things I've ever experienced. I'm so grateful and honored that I had the opportunity to see it. They were really, truly in love, and it showed throughout the entire ceremony.

Now, did the state of Minnesota blow up because these two men decided to hold their own ceremony? No. In fact, nothing really changed. The world continued on. So, why exactly is allowing two people who are in love the ability to show that love officially such a problem?
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