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Old 10-30-2008, 01:19 PM   #481
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So the will of the entire voting population of CA never changed in eight years then, I assume. And it doesn't matter that is was ruled unconstitutional.
And of course, the will of the people should always prevail. Even if that will clearly violates the Constitution.
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Old 10-30-2008, 01:19 PM   #482
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That's sick, that Hitler thing
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Old 10-30-2008, 01:47 PM   #483
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Now the yes-on-8 bigots are comparing gays to hitler: (from yes-on-8 rally yesterday)
Yes, Hitler hated gay people too, and I'm sure no one wants to be like Hitler.

Whenever you invoke Hitler, you never when it'll swing around and bite you in the ass.

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Between 1939 and 1945, the SS, assisted by collaborationist governments and recruits from occupied countries, systematically killed somewhere between 11 and 14 million people, including about six million Jews,[119][120] in concentration camps, ghettos and mass executions, or through less systematic methods elsewhere. In addition to those gassed to death, many also died as a result of starvation and disease while working as slave labourers (sometimes benefiting private German companies). Along with Jews, non-Jewish Poles (over three million), communists or political opponents, members of resistance groups, homosexuals, Roma, the physically handicapped and mentally retarded, Soviet prisoners of war (possibly as many as three million), Jehovah's Witnesses, Adventists and Neopagans, trade unionists, and psychiatric patients were killed. One of the biggest centres of mass-killing was the extermination camp complex of Auschwitz-Birkenau. Hitler never visited the concentration camps and did not speak publicly about the killing in precise terms.
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Old 10-30-2008, 03:59 PM   #484
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John Koch: How My Lesbian Boss Makes Me a Better Father
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Old 10-30-2008, 04:50 PM   #485
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^ from the above:

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For all of my boss' advice, it's witnessing the love she gives her kids that is a constant reminder of what it means to have your priorities in the right place. Her two daughters are in the office all the time. Even with a high-power position, she rarely misses a parent-teacher night or a school auction. Her office has a floor to ceiling cork board with all of her daughters' artwork and photographs. I've been to her house -- like mine, it has been taken over with the kids' toys, save for a tiny office reserved for the parents' stuff. My wife and I and our kids see their family at the Sunday morning farmers market, at a local pancake place, at swim lessons. Save for gender, our lives are virtually the same.

Occasionally, when straight parents get together, the subject of gay marriage or more over, gay parenting, comes up. For those of us who know same gender parents, the reaction is almost unanimous: gays and lesbians tend to make amazing parents. Maybe it's their acute sensitivity. Maybe it's because it is so much harder for gay and lesbians to become parents, so they work at it more. Maybe it's because they know they will face increased scrutiny and opposition as parents. Maybe it's genetics or a worldview, or maybe it's because of the heart-wrenching prospect that the same group behind the Prop 8 measure, if empowered, will some day try to take their children away.

As the Los Angeles Times wrote in its eloquent essay in opposition to Prop 8:

"Supporters of Proposition 8 insist that the measure is in no way intended to diminish the rights of gays and lesbians, but instead means to encourage ideal households for the raising of children."

Underneath the pro Prop 8 argument is a belief that gays and lesbians, simply by virtue of their sexual orientation, make bad parents. If only that were true, then we straight Dads would have it so easy.

I think moderate straight men and women might be able to rationalize, as both the Democratic and Republican presidential candidates have, that the word "marriage" should be exclusively reserved for a man and a woman. While certainly discriminatory, it is an accepted and often widely embraced political mantra. It is easy to conflate Prop 8 with that political talking point. But the fact is the proposition is far more dangerous. This proposition would be the grease to a very, very slippery slope. If successful, Prop 8 will embolden a radical agenda (mostly funded from outside California) which will not only take aim at Adam and Steve, but their children.

For many straight, well-intentioned parents of all political affiliations, Prop 8 may conjure up stereotypical images of carefree gay and lesbian couples running off to City Hall in leather chaps, who could be similarly served by civil unions, and separate but equal laws. Those parents may believe, "You know, marriage should be reserved for a man and a woman." Setting aside the arguments of civil rights, basic fairness and equality, I would ask those parents to think carefully about when those same gender husbands and wives become mothers and fathers. Since children have been the focus of so many of those frightening television ads supporting Prop 8, I ask you, "What about the children?"
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Old 10-30-2008, 05:12 PM   #486
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Am I the only one that always pictures Steve with a mustache?
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Old 10-30-2008, 05:14 PM   #487
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BTW - the first thing I do every morning is to (piss) log onto this board with the hope that the last post in this thread is "This argument is fucking retarded. Lets just treat the gays like people. Who wants breakfast?"

Anyone? Anyone?
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Old 10-30-2008, 05:36 PM   #488
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Old 10-30-2008, 05:36 PM   #489
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Originally Posted by Dalton View Post
BTW - the first thing I do every morning is to (piss) log onto this board with the hope that the last post in this thread is "This argument is fucking retarded. Lets just treat the gays like people. Who wants breakfast?"

Anyone? Anyone?



gays aren't real people.

5,000 years of history and biology tells us this.
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Old 10-31-2008, 04:11 PM   #490
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I was at my daughter's soccer practice and the mom of one of the other players said, "You know, I'm really worried about this Prop 8 thing" and her argument was about bringing "it" into the schools and that Marriage should be between a man and a woman and I said, "But who says? I mean, I know in the Bible that's how it's written, but the bible was written be MEN (and by men I mean people) and that may have been true at the time, but what's to say that it was RIGHT?" Every word or law that we live our lives by is written by people. And people make mistakes.

My opinion is that Prop 8 is promoted by people who fear and are repulsed by homosexuality, not people who really care about the sanctity of marriage. They are promoting an agenda and hide behind the words in the Bible. Well, the Bible says a lot more that these people choose to ignore when it comes to issues relating to homosexuality. Where is tolerance? Love of fellow man? I could go on and on.

In any case, I'm a practicing Catholic. I struggle with this issue because I just don't understand how a church (any faith, not just Catholic) can discriminate against people because of who they choose to love. I'm not gay, but wholeheartedly support gay rights because to me if two people love each other, why not let them be together and call it what it is? Marriage.

We have so many harsh realities in life. Why make such a big issue about this?
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Old 10-31-2008, 04:29 PM   #491
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Now the yes-on-8 bigots are comparing gays to hitler: (from yes-on-8 rally yesterday)

"There was another time in history when people, when the bell tolled. And the question was whether or not they were going to hear it. The time was during Nazi Germany with Adolf Hitler. You see he brought crowds of clergy together to assure them that he was going to look after the church.

And one of the members, bold and courageous, Reverend Niemand (sp?) made his way to the front and (inaudible) said "Hitler, we are not concerned about the church. Jesus Christ will take care of the church.

We are concerned about the soul of Germany." Embarrassed and chagrined, his peers quickly shuffled him to the back.

And as they did Adolf Hitler said, "The soul of Germany, you can leave that to me." And they did, and because they did bombs did not only fall upon the nation of Germany, but also upon the church and their testimony to this very day.

Let us not make that mistake folks. Let us hear the bell! Vote on Proposition 8!"
The spelling is correct. Niemand is German for Nobody. A little sick made-up story.
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Old 10-31-2008, 04:40 PM   #492
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Years ago I used to engage in more gay marriage / gay rights debates but I've since found it to be a mostly useless waste of time. And I will be very honest the reason is that I think that people who are opposed to gay marriage are doing it for one of two reasons: religious conviction that this is wrong/sinful or simply thinking that gay sex is icky.

My best male friend is gay, one of my roommates in law school was a lesbian, and I feel really embarrassed on behalf of bigoted people that they just don't get the simplicity of daily existence. As a straight woman, I can't fathom why my gay friends' relationship had any bearing on mine. I will never forget how my lesbian roommate was in a supportive, long term relationship with her partner, while my other, straight, roommate was basically a skanky ho. But hey, I guess she liked dicks so the sanctity of her relationships have to be preserved at all costs.
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Old 10-31-2008, 04:45 PM   #493
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YouTube - Discrimination
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Old 10-31-2008, 07:47 PM   #494
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Years ago I used to engage in more gay marriage / gay rights debates but I've since found it to be a mostly useless waste of time. And I will be very honest the reason is that I think that people who are opposed to gay marriage are doing it for one of two reasons: religious conviction that this is wrong/sinful or simply thinking that gay sex is icky.

My best male friend is gay, one of my roommates in law school was a lesbian, and I feel really embarrassed on behalf of bigoted people that they just don't get the simplicity of daily existence. As a straight woman, I can't fathom why my gay friends' relationship had any bearing on mine. I will never forget how my lesbian roommate was in a supportive, long term relationship with her partner, while my other, straight, roommate was basically a skanky ho. But hey, I guess she liked dicks so the sanctity of her relationships have to be preserved at all costs.
I agree, this is my position too. With certain things, like gay marriage, the people against it, will kill themselves before admitting that they've heard your argument and agree with you. Its because when you say 'gay marriage' they go to a little place in their mind where its all perverted and say 'they're going to make their kids GAY!' (why then do we have gay people?) or 'they're going to molest them because they're GAY' which is absolutely fucking bullshit and the last time one of mums friends said this in a flippant way i said some very heated and unkind things and left. (My mum doesn't believe that, but shes one of those people who "don't want to offend" so won't speak up when those people say the most offensive things! )
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Old 10-31-2008, 07:49 PM   #495
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At least in America it is open for debate.

Australian Marriage Equality
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