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Old 10-27-2008, 11:14 PM   #451
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Originally Posted by BonoVoxSupastar View Post
That's relevant because???
because John Elway has taken too many hits to the head and endorsed McCain.....
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Old 10-27-2008, 11:15 PM   #452
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JFK was ok w the Mormon Faith:

YouTube - JFK on Mormons
But the guy whose intellect you were just touting a few posts back isn't......
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Old 10-27-2008, 11:25 PM   #453
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JFK was ok w the Mormon Faith:

YouTube - JFK on Mormons
Because this is from when the Mormon church was officially a racist organisation it doesn't bolster anything.
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Old 10-28-2008, 12:56 AM   #454
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Because this is from when the Mormon church was officially a racist organisation it doesn't bolster anything.

They aren't anymore?
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Old 10-28-2008, 01:11 AM   #455
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Wasn't there a special revelation over the Negro question in 1978, who knows maybe the Mormon God will hotline gay equality into the church.
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Old 10-28-2008, 10:07 AM   #456
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JFK was ok w the Mormon Faith:


you know i love your piano-playing ilk.

i just dislike what your church is doing in California.

it's desperate. like the drunk girl who agrees to make out with the other drunk girl at the bar in order to get the group of boys to stop watching football and start paying attention to them.
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Old 10-28-2008, 03:35 PM   #457
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some hard truths:

Quote:
Obama Surge Confounds Gay Marriage
Minority Voters, Often Social Conservatives, Could Support Calif. Gay Marriage Ban
By SUSAN DONALDSON JAMES

Oct. 28, 2008 —

In 2003, Rev. Roland Stringfellow, who had served as pastor of a fundamentalist Baptist church in Indiana for a decade, resigned quietly rather than face his African-American congregation and explain that he was a gay black man.

"At that time, the best thing was not to proclaim it," Stringfellow told ABCNews.com. "When it comes down to being a black man, oftentimes we are forced to make a decision, 'Is my community or family more important than my own well-being?' We choose to live in silence and play the role, living on the down low."

Today, 39, and living in San Francisco, Stringfellow belongs to a more socially liberal church and hopes to be married one day. He is openly fighting California's Proposition 8 - a ballot initiative to outlaw recently legalized gay marriage - and cultural prejudices in his own community.

But Stringfellow's views may not be typical of most minorities in California, who could hold the key to the future of gay marriage in the most populous state in the nation. If passed, it will amend the state constitution to define marriage as between a man and a woman.

In this historic presidential election year, political observers say high voter turnout for Democratic frontrunner Barack Obama -- who is predicted to draw record numbers of church-going African Americans and Latinos -- may spell the demise of legal gay marriage in California.

"Maybe people don't want to talk about it, but it is definitely a major issue," said Stringfellow. "They feel [gay marriage] takes away from the image of the strong, black family. I think it's a shame that those of us who are gay or bisexual and want to be responsible for our families are not even allowed to because family members see our contributions as less and counter to the black culture."

African American parishes that argue scripture opposes same-sex marriage are joined by a broad coalition of traditional churches -- from white evangelicals and Mormons to Latino and Chinese Christian parishes and even some orthodox Jews.

The opposition includes gay and civil rights groups, unions, businesses and corporations, ethnic lobbies and Hollywood actors like Samuel Jackson, Brad Pitt and Ellen DeGeneres.

But, in another twist to this complex issue, both the NAACP and the National Black Justice Coalition have broken with many African American parishes.

Proposition 8: Changing the Rights to Gay Marriage

In a survey of 35,000 Americans about religious beliefs conducted by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, 46 percent of those who attend historically African American churches believe that society should discourage homosexuality. But that group is far more accepting of gays and lesbians than white evangelicals or Mormons, who frown on them at rates of 64 and 68 percent respectively.

People For the American Way Foundation, whose African American Ministers Leadership Council has embarked on a multi-year project to challenge homophobia found in focus groups that older churchgoing African Americans in California were actually open to marriage equality.

"African Americans are generally opposed to discrimination, but on marriage they need to sort out the distinctions between legal equality and religious belief," said Sharon Lettman, spokeman for People For the American Way Foundation. "Most people haven't had a chance to have that conversation. The workshops we did at the NAACP's California state convention last weekend make it clear that people are hungry for it."

Just last May, the state legalized gay marriage, drawing gay couples from around the couple and buoying sales tax coffers and the tourist industry. Same-sex marriage is also legal in Connecticut and Massachusetts.

Arizona and Florida voters face similar legal bans on Election Day, but all eyes are on California. At least 64,000 people from all 50 states and more than 20 other countries have given money to support or oppose Proposition 8.

Many like Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council, a conservative Christian lobby based in Washington, have flown in to the state to pursue the fight. He says that the proposition is "more important than the presidential election."

"We've picked bad presidents before, and we've survived as a nation," he said. "But we will not survive if we lose the institution of marriage."

Just one week before the election, campaign finance records show contributions totaling more than $60 million, according to the Associated Press.

"It's a staggering amount," said Matt Coles, director of the LGBT Project at the American Civil Liberties Union, which opposes the ban. "California is a cultural trendsetter. If voters decide same-sex couples can marry, it has an enormous influence."

Polls released last week from the Public Policy Institute of California showed the fight to defeat Proposition 8 was ahead by eight percentage points, but insiders say it's a dead heat.

Minority Voters Weigh in on Same-Sex Marriage

"This election is eminently winnable or losable," Coles told ABCNews.com.

"Proponents have 40 percent of the vote nailed down," he said. "We are convinced we have 40 percent of the voters nailed down. The remaining group of people is conflicted. They don't like gay marriage, but they don't like taking something away from other people."

Greg Herek, professor of psychology at University of California who specializes in research on sexual orientation, said as a group, African Americans, even those who support gay rights, tend to oppose same-sex marriage.

But "age may over-ride race," Herek, who opposes the ban, told ABCNews. "It's true the African Americans may turn out to vote against Proposition 8, but the younger may be more supportive of gay marriage."

"I don't have a crystal ball and it's a bit of a cliffhanger, but the Obama and McCain race will be over early in the evening," he said. "We'll be up late with Proposition 8."

Supporters of the effort have made "significant inroads" into the Chinese and Korean church communities, according to Karin Wang, who works with API Equality-LA, a group that represents Asian Pacific Islanders.

Collectively, these ads are all continuing a pattern of misinformation," Wang told ABCNews.com, "namely, the use of arguments that in mainstream media would appear ridiculous and illogical, as well as outright homophobic."

Ads in the Chinese media warn of "evils," such as polygamy or incest and laws that protect gay students as "opening the door to all sorts of chaos in the schools," she said.

Latinos, who tend to be even "more committed to traditional marriage" than white evangelicals, are also expected to vote in record numbers this year and will likely support the proposition, according to Rev. Samuel Rodriguez, president of the National Hispanic Christian Leadership Conference.

"Don't touch something that's part of our religious faith narrative," Rodriguez told ABCNews.com.

Still, Rodriguez said Latinos may be the "most conservative" of all ethnic groups on the issue of same-sex marriage, but are not "homophobes," and support the "canopy" of civil rights legislation enjoyed by people of all colors and sexual orientations in California.

Now, with the fate of Proposition 8 hanging in the balance, white evangelicals missed an opportunity to use the power of the Latino vote.

"There could have been a turning point if they'd engaged the Latino community," he told ABCNews.com. "Of the million of dollars invested in saying 'yes,' nothing was invested in the Hispanic community. They said, 'Any of you who are brown and speak Spanish can lead a prayer.'"

"If the proposition fails, it's "a direct result of the power brokers not engaging the Hispanic community in the state of California and only in a token role, rather than sharing the leadership mantel."

Ballot Decision Beyond Picking a President

But some opponents of the ban have more faith in Latino voters, especially the younger ones.

"Everyone knows it's going to be a really tight race," said David A. Lee, 52, a screenwriter who lives in Palm Springs and opposes Proposition 8. "I am really hoping it comes down to our side. The younger generation seems to be in our corner."

"Those going for Obama are not the most socially conservative," said Peter Kresel, 65, a consultant from Palm Springs who rushed to the altar before the vote on Proposition 8. "The more who get to the polls, the better, and I remain optimistic."

So, too, is Gary Goldstein, who also moved quickly to marry his partner in Los Angeles before the Proposition 8 vote. "Ultimately, I think people will make the right decision. My ads would say, 'Do not legalize discrimination for any group, especially for a group that has known discrimination.'"

Meanwhile, Stringfellow, who now works as "welcoming coordinator" for San Francisco's Center for Lesbian and Gay Studies, too, is placing bets on the younger, black voters.

"Young people are not hung up on the same prohibitions," he said. "[Being gay] is seen as more mainstream. 'What's the big deal?' they say. I am hoping they will vote with their hearts and not what their pastors have told them."
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Old 10-28-2008, 07:01 PM   #458
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I spend all this time writing out original posts and anti-gay marriage people get away using a style guide, these were pulled from a news site
Quote:
Marriage is, and always has been, a commitment and bond between a man and a woman. It is defined as such in the Bible, and has been defined as such by every other culture and religion since the dawn of man. It has only been recently that governments have concerned themselves with marriage by issuing licenses and keeping records, initially for the purposes of inheritance of property and for tracking blood lines of families. Even more recently, the state "blesses" such unions for financial and legal reasons - insurance, income taxes, legal rights, etc.

What most people are objecting to is the government redefining marriage. I object because I do not feel that the government has a place in defining, limiting, prohibiting, promoting or regulating marriage at all, one way or another. It is a spiritual, personal matter, between a man and a woman, and their God, if they have one.

Civil unions, for those financial and legal matters, is a separate matter. That is the purview of the state, and should be a separate concern from marriage. As far as that goes, I don't care who makes up this civil union, all that should be required is a commitment to share the financial responsibilities of a household.

But it is not a marriage, unless it is a man and woman who have bonded because of love and a desire and commitment to spending the rest of their lives together. I can understand the desire of gays to have a similar bond and commitment with their partners and to enjoy the legal and financial benefits and responsibilities of such, and I have no objection to that, just don't call it "marriage."
sounds oddly familiar
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Anyone who thinks that same-sex “marriage” is a benign eccentricity which won’t affect the average person should consider what it has done in Massachusetts. It’s become a hammer to force the acceptance and normalization of homosexuality on everyone. And this train is moving fast. What has happened so far is only the beginning.

On November 18, 2003, the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court announced its Goodridge opinion, ruling that it was unconstitutional not to allow same-sex “marriage.” Six months later, homosexual marriages began to be performed.
The public schools

The homosexual “marriage” onslaught in public schools across the state started soon after the November 2003, court decision.

*

At my own children's high school there was a school-wide assembly to celebrate same-sex “marriage” in early December, 2003. It featured an array of speakers, including teachers at the school who announced that they would be “marrying” their same-sex partners and starting families either through adoption or artificial insemination. Literature on same-sex marriage – how it is now a normal part of society – was handed out to the students.
*

Within months it was brought into the middle schools. In September, 2004, an 8th-grade teacher in Brookline, MA, told National Public Radio that the marriage ruling had opened up the floodgates for teaching homosexuality. “In my mind, I know that, `OK, this is legal now.' If somebody wants to challenge me, I'll say, `Give me a break. It's legal now,'” she told NPR. She added that she now discusses gay sex with her students as explicitly as she desires. For example, she said she tells the kids that lesbians can have vaginal intercourse using sex toys.
*

By the following year it was in elementary school curricula. Kindergartners were given picture books telling them that same-sex couples are just another kind of family, like their own parents. In 2005, when David Parker of Lexington, MA – a parent of a kindergartner – strongly insisted on being notified when teachers were discussing homosexuality or transgenderism with his son, the school had him arrested and put in jail overnight.

Second graders at the same school were read a book, “King and King”, about two men who have a romance and marry each other, with a picture of them kissing. When parents Rob and Robin Wirthlin complained, they were told that the school had no obligation to notify them or allow them to opt-out their child.
*

In 2006 the Parkers and Wirthlins filed a federal Civil Rights lawsuit to force the schools to notify parents and allow them to opt-out their elementary-school children when homosexual-related subjects were taught. The federal judges dismissed the case. The judges ruled that because same-sex marriage is legal in Massachusetts, the school actually had a duty to normalize homosexual relationships to children, and that schools have no obligation to notify parents or let them opt-out their children! Acceptance of homosexuality had become a matter of good citizenship!

Think about that: Because same-sex marriage is “legal”, a federal judge has ruled that the schools now have a duty to portray homosexual relationships as normal to children, despite what parents think or believe!
*

In 2006, in the elementary school where my daughter went to Kindergarten, the parents of a third-grader were forced to take their child out of school because a man undergoing a sex-change operation and cross-dressing was being brought into class to teach the children that there are now “different kinds of families.” School officials told the mother that her complaints to the principal were considered “inappropriate behavior.”
*

Libraries have also radically changed. School libraries across the state, from elementary school to high school, now have shelves of books to normalize homosexual behavior and the lifestyle in the minds of kids, some of them quite explicit and even pornographic. Parents complaints are ignored or met with hostility.

Over the past year, homosexual groups have been using taxpayer money to distribute a large, slick hardcover book celebrating homosexual marriage titled “Courting Equality” into every school library in the state.
*

It’s become commonplace in Massachusetts schools for teachers to prominently display photos of their same-sex “spouses” and occasionally bring them to school functions. Both high schools in my own town now have principals who are “married” to their same-sex partners, whom they bring to school and introduce to the students.
*

“Gay days” in schools are considered necessary to fight “intolerance” which may exist against same-sex relationships. Hundreds of high schools and even middle schools across the state now hold “gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender appreciation days”. They “celebrate” homosexual marriage and move forward to other behaviors such as cross-dressing and transsexuality. In my own town, a school committee member recently announced that combating “homophobia” is now a top priority.

Once homosexuality has been normalized, all boundaries will come down. The schools are already moving on to normalizing transgenderism (including cross-dressing and sex changes). The state-funded Commission on Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender Youth includes leaders who are transsexuals.

Public health

*

The Commissioner of the Massachusetts Department of Public Health is “married” to another man. In 2007 he told a crowd of kids at a state-sponsored youth event that it’s “wonderful being gay” and he wants to make sure there’s enough HIV testing available for all of them.
*

Since homosexual marriage became “legal” the rates of HIV / AIDS have gone up considerably in Massachusetts. This year public funding to deal with HIV/AIDS has risen by $500,000.
*

Citing “the right to marry” as one of the “important challenges” in a place where “it’s a great time to be gay”, the Massachusetts Department of Public Health helped produce The Little Black Book, Queer in the 21st Century, a hideous work of obscene pornography which was given to kids at Brookline High School on April 30, 2005. Among other things, it gives “tips” to boys on how to perform oral sex on other males, masturbate other males, and how to “safely” have someone urinate on you for sexual pleasure. It also included a directory of bars in Boston where young men meet for anonymous sex.

Domestic violence

*

Given the extreme dysfunctional nature of homosexual relationships, the Massachusetts Legislature has felt the need to spend more money every year to deal with skyrocketing homosexual domestic violence. This year $350,000 was budgeted, up $100,000 from last year.

Business

*

All insurance in Massachusetts must now recognize same-sex “married” couples in their coverage. This includes auto insurance, health insurance, life insurance, etc.
*

Businesses must recognize same-sex “married” couples in all their benefits, activities, etc., regarding both employees and customers.
*

The wedding industry is required serve the homosexual community if requested. Wedding photographers, halls, caterers, etc., must do same-sex marriages or be arrested for discrimination.
*

Businesses are often “tested” for tolerance by homosexual activists. Groups of homosexual activists often go into restaurants or bars and publicly kiss and fondle each other to test whether the establishment demonstrates sufficient “equality” — now that homosexual marriage is “legal”. In fact, more and more overt displays of homosexual affection are seen in public places across the state to reinforce "marriage equality".

Legal profession

*

The Massachusetts Bar Exam now tests lawyers on their knowledge of same-sex "marriage" issues. In 2007, a Boston man, Stephen Dunne, failed the Massachusetts bar exam because he refused to answer the questions in it about homosexual marriage.
*

Issues regarding homosexual “families” are now firmly entrenched in the Massachusetts legal system. In many firms, lawyers in Massachusetts practicing family law must now attend seminars on homosexual "marriage". There are also now several homosexual judges overseeing the Massachusetts family courts.

Adoption of children to homosexual “married” couples

*

Homosexual “married” couples can now demand to be able to adopt children the same as normal couples. Catholic Charities decided to abandon handling adoptions rather submit to regulations requiring them to allow homosexuals to adopt the children in their care.
*

In 2006 the Massachusetts Department of Social Services (DSS) honored two men “married” to each other as their “Parents of the Year”. The men already adopted a baby through DSS (against the wishes of the baby’s birth parents). According to news reports, the day after that adoption was final DSS approached the men about adopting a second child. Homosexuals now appear to be put in line for adopting children ahead of heterosexual parents by state agencies in Massachusetts.

Government mandates

*

In 2004, Governor Mitt Romney ordered Justices of the Peace to perform homosexual marriages when requested or be fired. At least one Justice of the Peace decided to resign.
*

Also thanks to Gov. Romney, marriage licenses in Massachusetts now have “Party A and Party B” instead of “husband and wife.” Romney did not have a legal requirement to do this; he did it on his own. (See more on this below.)
*

Since homosexual relationships are now officially “normal”, the Legislature now gives enormous tax money to homosexual activist groups. In particular, the Massachusetts Commission on Gay Lesbian Bisexual and Transgender Youth is made up of the most radical and militant homosexual groups which target children in the schools. This year they are getting $700,000 of taxpayer money to go into the public schools.
*

In 2008 Massachusetts changed the state Medicare laws to include homosexual “married” couples in the coverage.

The public square

*

Since gay “marriage”, annual gay pride parades have become more prominent. There are more politicians and corporations participating, and even police organizations take part. And the envelope gets pushed further and further. There is now a profane “Dyke March” through downtown Boston, and recently a “transgender” parade in Northampton that included bare-chested women who have had their breasts surgically removed so they could “become” men. Governor Patrick even marched with his “out lesbian” 17-year old daughter in the 2008 Boston Pride event, right behind a “leather” group brandishing a black & blue flag, whips and chains!

The media

*

Boston media, particularly the Boston Globe newspaper, regularly does feature stories and news stories portraying homosexual “married” couples where regular married couples would normally be used. It’s “equal”, they insist, so there must be no difference in the coverage. Also, the newspaper advice columns now deal with homosexual "marriage" issues, and how to properly accept it.
*

A growing number of news reporters and TV anchors are openly “married” homosexuals who march in the “gay pride” parades.

Is gay marriage actually legal in Massachusetts?

Like everywhere else in America, the imposition of same-sex marriage on the people of Massachusetts was a combination of radical, arrogant judges and pitifully cowardly politicians.

The Goodridge ruling resulted in a complete cave-in by politicians of both parties on this issue. Same-sex “marriage” is still illegal in Massachusetts. On November 18, 2003 the court merely ruled that it was unconstitutional not to allow it, and gave the Legislature six months to “take such action as it may deem appropriate.” Note that the Massachusetts Constitution strongly denies courts the power to make or change laws, or from ordering the other branches to take any action. The constitution effectively bans “judicial review” – a court changing or nullifying a law. Thus, the court did not order anything to happen; it simply rendered an opinion on that specific case. And the Legislature did nothing. The marriage statutes were never changed. However, against the advice of many, Gov. Romney took it upon himself to alter the state's marriage licenses to say "Party A and Party B" and order officials to perform same-sex "weddings" if asked, though he had no legal obligation to do so. Technically, same-sex marriages are still illegal in Massachusetts.

Nevertheless, we are having to live with it. And furthermore, this abdication of their proper constitutional roles by the Legislature and Governor has caused a domino effect as "copycat" rulings have been issued in California and Connecticut, with other states fearful it will happen there.
In conclusion

Homosexual “marriage” hangs over society like a hammer with the force of law. And it’s only just begun.

It’s pretty clear that the homosexual movement’s obsession with marriage is not because large numbers of them actually want to marry each other. Research shows that homosexual relationships are fundamentally dysfunctional on many levels, and “marriage” as we know it isn’t something they can achieve, or even desire. (In fact, over the last three months, the Sunday Boston Globe’s marriage section hasn’t had any photos of homosexual marriages. In the beginning it was full of them.) This is about putting the legal stamp of approval on homosexuality and imposing it with force throughout the various social and political institutions of a society that would never accept it otherwise. To the rest of America: You've been forewarned.
I'm just promoting diversity
Quote:
When homosexual marriage is legal then homosexual adoption is legal and this is a threat to children. The natural order of child rearing is dad, mom and child. When the family is disturbed in such a way that the genetic father and mother cannot raise a child then a child deserves a home with two parents of the opposite sex.

We are here today because we devalued this natural formula for child rearing.

God will judge our nation for our immorality.
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Old 10-28-2008, 07:35 PM   #459
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dude.
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Old 10-29-2008, 11:35 AM   #460
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^^ (two above)Wha?

I you Tim Gunn

YouTube - Tim Gunn calls Prop. 8 "unattractive"
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Old 10-29-2008, 03:44 PM   #461
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I read that supporters of that Prop 8 picketed the premiere of the movie Milk in San Francisco last night. That's pretty sad.
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Old 10-29-2008, 03:54 PM   #462
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I read that supporters of that Prop 8 picketed the premiere of the movie Milk in San Francisco last night. That's pretty sad.
Bigotry is sad...
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Old 10-29-2008, 04:23 PM   #463
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I'm going to see that movie, the trailer looks good

SAN FRANCISCO — It was only fitting that "Milk," the film about Harvey Milk's life and death, premiere Tuesday night in the Castro.

Milk, San Francisco's first openly gay leader who was slain 30 years ago, used to call himself "the Mayor of Castro Street," referring to the main drag through the neighborhood he represented on the Board of Supervisors and the center of the city's gay and lesbian community.

The world premiere of his biopic brought considerable star power to Milk's beloved Castro Theatre, including director Gus Van Sant and stars Sean Penn, Josh Brolin, Emile Hirsch and Diego Luna. The film follows Milk's rise to office and his and Mayor George Moscone's assassination at City Hall by fellow Supervisor Dan White in 1978.

Van Sant said he had been talking about making this film for 18 years.

"He's an American hero," Van Sant said. "He's a great example of a man representing his community and his city."

Milk received another tribute earlier in the day, when a historic streetcar featured in the film was dedicated to him. The supervisor had been a champion of public transportation.

Tuesday night's premiere also brought out many of Milk's old friends who helped usher in the gay rights movement that has led, a generation later, to a fight over the right of same-sex couples to marry.

Gay rights activist Cleve Jones, played in the film by Emile Hirsch, said Milk would have been thrilled at the film but angry that the fight over civil rights continued. He pointed across the street, where hundreds were rallying against Proposition 8, a Nov. 4 ballot measure that would rewrite the California constitution to deny same-sex couples the right to marry.

"Harvey would be angry," Jones said, "and he'd still be fighting."
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Old 10-29-2008, 06:39 PM   #464
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Originally Posted by MrsSpringsteen View Post
....He pointed across the street, where hundreds were rallying against Proposition 8, a Nov. 4 ballot measure that would rewrite the California constitution[/B]
You do mean a Nov 4 ballot measure that would re-affirm the will of the citizens of California, right?
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Old 10-29-2008, 06:42 PM   #465
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I'm going to raise my daughter to think of the gays the same way she thinks of the yankees; being one doesn't make you evil, it just means that you should switch teams as quick as possible.
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