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Old 10-22-2008, 06:33 PM   #391
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and as a follow up, i think this is a great post.

it tells me what it is you don't understand, which is that i'm a person too. not a virtual person, a person. and i'm every bit your equal, and deserving of the same rights, protections, and respect that you are accorded.
Seems to be a mutual misunderstanding.

Why do you feel it is not possible for someone to be A) completely opposed to redefining marriage while also B) believing that homosexuals are created in God's image and C) able to recognize their dignity as human beings and equality before the law?
And, do you really think opposition to same-sex marriage is based solely on "fear, ignorance, and loathing"?
I've kept my arguments completely secular but there is entire moral argument on religious grounds to be made. True, the law is secular but should it not still reflect the morals of those it governs. And the vast majority of Americans still believe marriage to be between one man and one woman, a belief which predates America, our common law and has only been the cornerstone of Western civilization for 2000+ years.

Plus, for me, marriage is clearly defined in the New Testament of the Bible. Mk 10:6-9

There, now this thread has gays, guns and God.
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Old 10-22-2008, 10:52 PM   #392
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i can think of no reason to withhold the word "marriage" other than to maintain an arbitrary distinction between two unions, and the distinction clearly means that one is preferable to the other.

civil unions are inherently unequal. there is no redefinition of marriage, not insofar as other "redefinitions" -- can't marry 13 year olds, can't marry your first cousin, can't marry 5 women -- have further altered the definition.

the fear comes from the thinking that calling two women "married" will somehow degrade a man and a woman who are likewise married.

the ignorance comes from the thinking that a same-sex couple is inherently different in substantive ways from an opposite-sex couple. (are there differences? yes. but no more than the difference between, say, Mr. and Mrs. Yolland and Mr. and Mrs. Dreadsox)

the loathing comes from the need to maintain a distinction in order to reaffirm one's status as a preferred group.
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Old 10-22-2008, 11:05 PM   #393
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the need to maintain a distinction in order to reaffirm one's status as a preferred group.

Yep.




just like Alabamans and Georgians had to
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Old 10-23-2008, 03:46 AM   #394
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God, do I hate willful ignorance.

Anyone remember the poster Varitek? She doesn't post much anymore because she's studying abroad in Europe, but she is the child of a lesbian couple. And she could come in here right now and point-by-point explain to you how her childhood was just as "beneficial" as any other one.

Defining that as an ideal, and saying that same-sex couples can never provide for their kids as well as heterosexuals, is not only blatantly false, it's pure, 100%, hateful bigotry. At this point you've heard way too many facts and opposing viewpoints from people who've actually lived it for it to be anything other than willfully ignorant bigotry.

My hope is that posts like this, in the near future, would get one suspended on a forum like this.


Thanks Phillyfan (although I'm working in Europe...2 years ago when I was studying abroad in Europe was when I got quite into FYM, though, and had a thread about being the child of lesbians).

I agree that posts like that are so objectively wrong and bigoted and as offensive as saying "black people shouldn't have children for xyz reasons."
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Old 10-23-2008, 07:10 AM   #395
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I'll take credit for that mistake: my bad. We'll get 'em next time, V.
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Old 10-23-2008, 07:49 AM   #396
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i can think of no reason to withhold the word "marriage" other than to maintain an arbitrary distinction between two unions, and the distinction clearly means that one is preferable to the other.

.......

the loathing comes from the need to maintain a distinction in order to reaffirm one's status as a preferred group.

People forget that we've already had our experiment with "Separate But Equal."


It failed miserably.







and it's still failing
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Old 10-23-2008, 01:09 PM   #397
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Washington's Other Sex Scandal: - Reason Magazine

http://www.mega.nu/ampp/baldwin_pedo...osexuality.pdf

Okay these articles bother me.

Irvine? Melon? Please pick them apart and show me how wrong they are.
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Old 10-23-2008, 01:33 PM   #398
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A message of not hating:

YouTube - The Best Gift

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Old 10-23-2008, 01:43 PM   #399
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Washington's Other Sex Scandal: - Reason Magazine

http://www.mega.nu/ampp/baldwin_pedo...osexuality.pdf

Okay these articles bother me.

Irvine? Melon? Please pick them apart and show me how wrong they are.


you know, i really shouldn't have to do this.

any idiot would realize the sources, would realize that one person does not speak for millions.

do the math. use your powers of critical analysis.
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Old 10-23-2008, 01:48 PM   #400
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I am very concerned about this article:

Most Wanted American Pedophile Arrested in Thailand

Purpleoscar, please reassure me that you are not a sick heterosexual pervert who wants to fuck little girls.
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Old 10-23-2008, 01:53 PM   #401
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I am very concerned about this article:

Most Wanted American Pedophile Arrested in Thailand

Purpleoscar, please reassure me that you are not a sick heterosexual pervert who wants to fuck little girls.
How did you know!

Joking.
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Old 10-23-2008, 01:54 PM   #402
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wow. i did a single google. here's what i came up with:


Homosexuality and Child Sexual Abuse



i look forward to your future posts arguing that blacks aren't as smart as whites, that jews are greedier than christians, that all puerto ricans steal, that all native americans are alcoholics, that asians are better at math than whites, that gypsies will use black magic to steal your purse, and that curry objectively makes indians smell funny.

because that's on par with this bullshit.
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Old 10-23-2008, 02:04 PM   #403
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A message of not hating:

YouTube - The Best Gift

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that ad appears to claim that all children should be born to white people.
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Old 10-23-2008, 02:05 PM   #404
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you know, i really shouldn't have to do this.

any idiot would realize the sources, would realize that one person does not speak for millions.

do the math. use your powers of critical analysis.
Well I apologize if I hurt your feelings but when it comes to children I get really angry and defensive. The article talks about plenty of examples that look like a double standard. Especially with the president of PFLAG. If you have other studies you know about I don't mind reading them.

I would be interested in articles with gays that actually attack NAMBLA and people who support intergenerational relationships. If it's not the majority opinion of homosexual relationships then there should be some backlash against those who support intergenerational relationships. As you can tell I draw a line (or brick wall) when it comes to the age of 18.
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Old 10-23-2008, 02:05 PM   #405
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A message of not hating:

YouTube - The Best Gift

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Nice fairytale, but why don't we straight people start fixing the problems that have existed in hetero marriage for generations before we start blaming the gays for divorces, single parent households and out of wedlock children.
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