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Old 09-27-2008, 08:20 PM   #16
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Every time an issue is declared "a right" and thus free from the vote, we extinguish part of our liberty. Ever think of that?
There is a word for such paired thinking. How can the some couples entering into marriage contracts deprive you of your liberties?

Sexual activity should be restricted to consenting parties, by definition adults and human beings, as far as the state is concerned arguments for banning sodomy are off the table. State intervention against homosexual activity is state run discrimination.

Marriage is a contract between consenting adults, the religious prohibitions against homosexuality (which are dismissed too lightly in this day and age) are irrelevant for public policy.

Gay marriage is just as much a right as heterosexual marriage, the right of consenting parties to enter into a marriage contract.
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Old 09-27-2008, 08:56 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by A_Wanderer View Post
There is a word for such paired thinking. How can the some couples entering into marriage contracts deprive you of your liberties?

Sexual activity should be restricted to consenting parties, by definition adults and human beings, as far as the state is concerned arguments for banning sodomy are off the table. State intervention against homosexual activity is state run discrimination.

Marriage is a contract between consenting adults, the religious prohibitions against homosexuality (which are dismissed too lightly in this day and age) are irrelevant for public policy.

Gay marriage is just as much a right as heterosexual marriage, the right of consenting parties to enter into a marriage contract.
It's a tad more than a legal contract. Marriage is the foundation of society thus changing it's definition will radically change society. Who would argue that no-fault divorce and single parent households haven't done just that?
States have legitimate reasons for defining marriage. And in a democracy, the people have every expectation of being able to decide the nature of their community so long as they respect truly protected rights.

Any definition of marriage will include some people while excluding others. Including yours. But most importantly, if that definition is to change than it should be because the will of the people wishes it to.
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Old 09-27-2008, 08:56 PM   #18
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Every time an issue is declared "a right" and thus free from the vote, we extinguish part of our liberty. Ever think of that?
Giving women the right to vote extinguished someone's liberty? Giving minorities equal protection under the law extinguished someone's liberty?

Flawless logic.
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Old 09-27-2008, 08:59 PM   #19
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Giving women the right to vote extinguished someone's liberty? Giving minorities equal protection under the law extinguished someone's liberty?

Flawless logic.
Ellen and Portia got married a few weeks ago. As a straight woman, my liberty hasn't been snuffed out yet, but I'm still watching my back.
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Old 09-27-2008, 09:03 PM   #20
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It's a tad more than a legal contract. Marriage is the foundation of society thus changing it's definition will radically change society.
In which radical ways has the Canadian society changed?

Can you comment on that a little bit?
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Old 09-27-2008, 09:07 PM   #21
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Nobody cares about Canada

has Canada even even been hit with a terrorist attack?

Are Canadians even worth taking hostage?
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Old 09-27-2008, 09:11 PM   #22
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Are Canadians even worth taking hostage?
Just shows how much you know.

The Serbs did tie that one peacekeeper dude to a tree a few years back.
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Old 09-27-2008, 09:14 PM   #23
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Just shows how much you know.

The Serbs did tie that one peacekeeper dude to a tree a few years back.
You Canadians will see your value skyrocket when, according to the voices in random bloggers' heads, you and Mexico finally join forces and merge with the U.S., in what can only be described as Justice League 2009. Chuck Norris is behind this somehow.
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Old 09-27-2008, 09:18 PM   #24
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Nobody cares about Canada

has Canada even even been hit with a terrorist attack?

Are Canadians even worth taking hostage?
So true.
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Old 09-27-2008, 09:21 PM   #25
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James Madison - Federalist 10 and Federalist 51.

The slaves were counted less than a whole because they were forced to compromise with the southern states in order to move forward. Had they not, the Articles would have remained and the union would have further split, and I imagine it would have taken much longer for the slaves to get their rights.
I know why the slaves were counted as less than a whole.

I think your interpretation is interesting.
From a historical standpoint, I think it a grand leap to conclude the document iteself was about protecting the minority to providing rights to certain groups within a society. I do not necessarily subscribe to this point of view.
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Old 09-27-2008, 09:33 PM   #26
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I for one am sick and tired of all this partisan bullshit. Can't we just come up with a workable compromise?

I propose that we outlaw all marriages between gay men (I think we are all comfortable with lesbians - thanks L Word). They will not have standing as official couples. This will please the conservative right.

Then while we take that away, we do some sort of Affirmative Action hiring to make sure that gay men lead almost every Boy Scout troop in America.

Deal?
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Old 09-27-2008, 11:18 PM   #27
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Some schools have a program where they make young girls carry around a 10 bag of flour for a week. They learn what it would be like to have a baby to be responsible for.

Some girls do go on and become mothers, at lease they know what it is like to lug around a kid.


Thirteen year old boys all have a best friend. The school curriculum should include an exercise where they pair off and have a one week ‘Civil Union” with their best friend. They should have to learn how to launder their clothes properly. Learn how to chose a coordinated ensemble (dress in clothes that match). Learn proper hygiene. (Shave each other’s back hair). They could practice CPR and heimlich maneuvers on each other. These are all beneficial skills for all young men to master.

I believe this is already the curriculum at Catholic schools.
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Old 09-27-2008, 11:38 PM   #28
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Every time an issue is declared "a right" and thus free from the vote, we extinguish part of our liberty. Ever think of that?


A self-determining society may well decide to allow same-sex marriage but to say that it has ever existed as a right would simply be untrue.
It certainly isn't in the Constitution in any specific language one could point to and no philosopher, legal scholar, religious thinker or civic leader has ever put forth the argument that it is implied prior to this generation.

yep. get them blacks outta my public schools and universities.

the logic behind denying basic civil rights to people on the basis of being gay is NO DIFFERENT than denying basic civil rights on the basis of skin color.
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Old 09-27-2008, 11:43 PM   #29
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the logic behind denying basic civil rights to people on the basis of being gay is NO DIFFERENT than denying basic civil rights on the basis of skin color.
Absolutely.

Do you have to sit in a special section of the bus, the pink triangle section perhaps, in DC?

If so, that is disgraceful, and I condemn it.
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Old 09-27-2008, 11:46 PM   #30
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Absolutely.

Do you have to sit in a special section of the bus, the pink triangle section perhaps, in DC?

If so, that is disgraceful, and I condemn it.


firstly, my people were tossed into the ovens, which is where we get the pink triangle.

secondly, it is legal to fire my people in many states and deny them housing on the basis of sexual orientation. it is illegal in FL to adopt children. and, as we know, it is illegal to be married except in MA or CA.

i wonder how you'd feel coming over here 100 some odd years ago to "No Irish" signs in various places of employment. it's kind of like that.

and i challenge you to find a group as discriminated against on a worldwide level as violently as homosexuals. we face execution in many countries in Africa and the Middle East.
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