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Old 04-10-2003, 11:00 PM   #31
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Is it okay for American Muslim groups to go to poor African-American communities here in the U.S. and pass out information about Islam and communicate it to people as a righteous path to success and/or salvation?
No, it is not ok, and it is not a one way street. I think people who have chosen one religion, shouldnīt be told about other righteous paths. They are intelligent enough to decide on their own, and religion is not a thing that should be sold like spots for where you buy your next shoes or which is the best credit card. If people come to you and ask you to explain about Christianity, or if you are in a friendly discussion amongst friends, thatīs different.

Keep in mind though, that comparing the U.S. situation and the Iraq situation does not have a lot of sense. It is really as if after 09/11 hundreds of Muslims would have gone to NYC to Ground Zero to cry out their belief in Allah. I doubt that many americans would have liked that, apart from the very slim chance that one Christian would have conversed to Muslim belief.

So I think those evangelists are not really seeing the reality. This is why they maybe should go to Iraq, like I said before - they could learn a lot there, not necessarily the Muslims.
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Old 04-10-2003, 11:15 PM   #32
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I'll just stick to what the Bible says.
That is fine. But also respect that more than 1 billion of us are Christians whose theology may be slightly different than the one you follow. Therefore, Mother Teresa's theology is not the same as yours, and as such, I don't see why she should be viewed as mixed up.
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Old 04-11-2003, 06:12 AM   #33
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I agree with anitram wholeheartedly on this.


I just don't see why we can't give the country back to the iraqis and not seek to change their culture. I really wish my tax dollars didn't go towards making people subscribe to a particular religion.


I think christians would set a better example, by skipping the rhetoric and just offering humanitarian aid.
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Old 04-11-2003, 06:18 AM   #34
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Both as a Christian and as an American, I would say that while I am sure that the people who are organizing this movement want to be helpful, the timing and tone seems wrong. Given the circumstances, I think this is the opposite of wisdom, something that Jesus advocated. Also, "loving your neighbor" sometimes means giving them space to be who they are and not having an agenda for them. Otherwise you treat humans as objects, and I think God is very clear that humans are created in the image of God and there is inherent dignity in that. Treating people as potential converts is reductionistic and I think in this particular circumstance would be counterproductive to true redemption and reconciliation which could hopefully happen in the future.
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Old 04-11-2003, 06:47 AM   #35
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I agree with her - there are multiple paths to the truth, it is up to us to be respectful and loving of other people's beliefs. I believe God works to reveal himself in different ways to all of us, and I am respectful of the paths people choose.

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Old 04-11-2003, 06:51 AM   #36
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But I am all for those naive Christians going there.....and the Americans will actually go and see how destroyed a country can be after a war, which will hopefully improve their judgement qualities in the future.
Speaking of insulting.
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Old 04-11-2003, 06:58 AM   #37
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I really believe "converting people" is wrong. Its plain wrong. The only conversion that should take place is that the person who wants to be converted should seek the help of a father, imam or a priest. Not the other way round.

Giving help and then asking the people who is being helped to be converted is cheating ! Its very bad !!

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Old 04-11-2003, 09:11 AM   #38
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Missionaries do not convert people. The change takes place within their heart. Missionaries only point the way - the individual makes the choice.

It amazes me how for weeks we've hammered the concept of free speech - but as soon as a Christian wants to share the Gospel, it turns into a bad case of heartburn for so many.

I agree with sulawesigirl4 that the timing and tone may be off, but to close off the marketplace of ideas to Christians is ridicules.
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Old 04-11-2003, 09:14 AM   #39
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Originally posted by anitram


That is fine. But also respect that more than 1 billion of us are Christians whose theology may be slightly different than the one you follow. Therefore, Mother Teresa's theology is not the same as yours, and as such, I don't see why she should be viewed as mixed up.
Not being familiar with The Second Vatican council, maybe you could help me understand how The Second Vatican council's statement compares to Jesus' statement in John 14:6?

There are numerous verses in the Bible regarding Jesus exclusive claim. I'd appreciate your insights.
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Old 04-11-2003, 09:40 AM   #40
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Perhaps I should mention that I am coming from the vantage point of one whose parents are missionaries...this has been my entire life, my growing up. I do take issue with people that naively assume that all missionaries operate in the same manner or that it is inherently wrong to share your beliefs with others. (Freedom to speak means freedom to disagree and to attempt to discuss why you disagree with someone, including in matters of religion.)

However, I equally take issue with a strand of Christianity and mission work that treats people as numbers (how many souls have you saved?) and arrogantly marches in with cultural prejudice and assumes to be able to speak accurately and sensitively. In my experience, part of having credibility is joining with others in community and demonstrating your commonness as humans. Only through relationships (which involve openness on both sides) can you really start talking about such major things as one's beliefs or faith. And in my opinion, even then one should have the humility and openness to critique one's own views, to admit that you may be wrong or have some things wrong.

I don't even want to start talking about differing versions of Christianity (ie. Protestantism vs. Catholicism) because all too often it degenerates into mudslinging and I feel that although I may have doctrinal differences with my Catholic friends, we are still called to love one another as the body of Christ. Claiming the moral high ground by having the Bible on my side is a risky business because for all I know, while I hope my interpretations are correct, I am still human and capable of error.

Just a few comments, anyways.
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Old 04-11-2003, 10:07 AM   #41
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Originally posted by Dreadsox


Speaking of insulting.
I donīt see anything insulting in my post - I just posted my opinion. I truly think that Americans who want to go to Iraq to spread Christianity - in the actual situation - are naive, but maybe they should go, because they will return less naive. Whatīs so insulting about that? Its just an opinion, I didnīt accuse anyone of anything, I just said I think it is naive.

And why canīt you PM me if you want to have a personal discussion about what is or isnīt insulting? Instead, you choose to waste a whole post for one sentence, just to put me down. I can see your task is to discredit, but what is your problem?

This whole forum is about freeing your mind. So I would appreciate if I am allowed to use words like naive. Youīre whining about my comments every second day. If you choose not to take my arguments seriously because I express myself more clear than you would like sometimes, thatīs your choice. But please accept that as a European, I have different standards of political correctness.

Sula: I wholeheartedly agree
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Old 04-11-2003, 11:28 AM   #42
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I sense a lack of empathy and respect for other cultures.

To the parents posting in here, I ask this. How would you feel if a government sponsored program encourage your children to abandon your beliefs? If this were happening to you I would be with you opposing such activities.

I have pretty strong feelings about this. All you have to really do is what deep suggests above and it gets pretty clear, imo.

Quote:
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Why the heck shouldn't Christians want to go in and spread the good news? Isn't that what Jesus did? Isn't that what the New Testament tells us we should do as Christians?
Because all religions have their own good news and don't need another religion's good news to complete the picture for them.
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Old 04-11-2003, 11:40 AM   #43
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To the parents posting in here, I ask this. How would you feel if a government sponsored program encourage your children to abandon your beliefs? If this were happening to you I would be with you opposing such activities.
They do. It’s called the public school system.

We have very high respect for our public schools and greatly appreciate what they offer our son. But some of the curriculum imposed on the teachers would fall into the category you describe.

Even with some of the nonsense taught, we do not yank our son out of school. We use it as a training time and show the differences in belief systems.
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Old 04-11-2003, 11:55 AM   #44
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They do. It’s called the public school system.
Huh? Could you elaborate?
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Old 04-11-2003, 12:21 PM   #45
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I can only say what I do when I'm with people not of my faith. I'm a Roman Catholic. I only discuss my religious beliefs with people who are interested in them. Maybe they just want to learn more about us. Fair enough. Maybe they're interested in becoming one of us. I was one of those once. I'm a convert. I was raised a Protestant, a fairly conservative one but not fundamentalist. I wanted it. I was interested and then some. If it reminds me of me when I decided I wanted to join but had alot of questions, then I answer the questions. That's it. The desire has to be there in the other person. I can't put it there. Sometimes it is there, sometimes it's not. You have to be able to tell the difference. I'd been through alot of doubt and spiritual confusion. I still go through doubt and spiritual confusion. I don't think this is an unhealthy thing because it makes me want to do the right thing.
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