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Old 10-03-2004, 12:41 AM   #106
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You are getting extremely tetchy over this, being a homophobe does not mean that you are just scared of gay people. It means that you harbour a resentment towards them because of their sexuality. I personally don't like using the word because it has all the PC crap associated with it and its there to label.
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Old 10-03-2004, 01:15 AM   #107
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Originally posted by AussieU2fanman


Oh please, I'm not full yet, Please continue shoving words in my mouth! I am not a homophobe! I am not scared of homosexuals or their lifestyle! This is happening too much on this forum, please stop saying things that aren't true. I never EVER made any indication that I feared homosexuals and that I was a homophobe myself. This is just getting annoying now.
And no, try and seperate 'crush' and 'sexual preference.' I know what a crush is, and it is quite different from what we perceive as ideal partners. Blah Blah Blah, I've said all this before.
You fear you will be molded into a homosexual -- you don't have to say it in those specific words, it's very clear without you coming right out and saying "I fear that I will be turned into a homosexual" (see quotes from several of you posts in this thread -- all just ooze fear). The very fact that you believe "people" can be converted into homosexuals shows great fear. Trust me, honey, I've dealt with this. People either are homosexual (or bisexual) or they aren't -- it's not a disease anyone is going to catch.

As for your cousin being in a loving heterosexual relationship...well my parents had the perfect looking marriage too. Three kids. Surely no homosexual man would ever have three children! Hahaha! Well, he did, in part because of the hatred of people like you. He felt he had to be "normal" and he tried, he really tried, but he was gay. Period. And no amount of trying would EVER change that. If he couldn't turn into a heterosexual, then a real heterosexual can NEVER be turned into a homosexual. He tried to hide his true self anf that hurt everyone around him. And you know what? He should never have felt the need to hide. You want homosexuals to be second class citizens because you fear they will target you and destroy the fabric of society. Bullshit! Pure unadulterated bullshit!

Making people conform to your beliefs on this issue is no better than requiring you to fake being a good church going boy. Should you have fewer rights in your country than Christians? Well?? I'm sure you are saying "No way! What the fuck is she thinking?" But isn't Christianity a big part of the social fabric of western culture? Wouldn't we all get along better if we were all Christians?

And Jessica Alba is merely a crush, current fancy, flavor of the week, whatever. The fact is your sexual preference hasn't changed, no matter that you like one type of female over another type of female -- they both are female.

See below for quotes from several of your posts in this thread.... The first set if from your very first post in this thread. Pay particular attention to the part in bold.

Quote:
I have some second hand experience as my cousin who knew he was never actually gay turned gay about a year ago....
I GUARANTEE he wouldn't have turned gay if being gay wasn't becoming so socially acceptable and 'cool.' ....
I don't think I'll be able to live in a society like that. It sickens me to the stomach. It's immoral and unethical and it is downright spitting in the face of God's laws.
You can live out a gay life, just don't violate the sanctity of marriage that is EXCLUSIVELY between a man and a women by getting married to the same sex! And the media should stop converting straight people to gay people. That is just ridiculous. Keep homosexuality to a minority of people. Don't give them equal rights as straight people in the form of marriage. The media and all the new gay rights are fucking up society. Just leave the real homosexuals the way they are and stop trying to turn people like me into homosexuals!
Quote:
There are flaws in our nature, even though we are born with them, it doesn't make it okay. No we are NOT all born equal, that's the biggest load of shit I've heard. Now, I think that the idea of a man having a sexual relationship with another man is sickening. It is a flaw in their human nature. This goes against the moral fibres in my body

What I don't like is that if we can't deal with an issue, we just accept it and label it as 'okay.' That's living in a fantasy world. We should admit that people aren't equal and 'the same' in this world because we are only lying to ourselves. And if we see something as bad and we can't change it, don't just accept it and encourage it, that is living a false reality.

Gays are our equals according to you? They have the same rights?
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Old 10-03-2004, 01:25 AM   #108
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Originally posted by AussieU2fanman
Guy's let's just make this very clear. Just because someone see's homosexuality as morally wrong, it does not mean they are homophobes and fear gay's. What is so difficult to understand?
Sorry hon, but you come and spew hatred, you are going to get taken to task. Your posts show great hate bred by irrational fear. If you replaced homosexual or gay in your posts with the word atheist you would maybe be able to see the fear and irrationality of your argument. But I doubt that will happen.

To anyone else offended by my last couple of posts...sorry, but I have seen and felt firsthand what such bigotry can do to people, and I can't help but be very angry.
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Old 10-03-2004, 01:32 AM   #109
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Agreed, I do not think that anybody should be discriminated against on the basis of sexuality. I doubt that anybody here can convince them to the opposite point of view on the matter, all that it takes is experience and self reflection.
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Old 10-03-2004, 01:52 AM   #110
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So what you're saying is that deep down I am actually gay? I can assure you, I am very comfortable with my sexuality and nothing will change that (I'm not easily turned or convinced). Although people's sexuality can change with respect to gender, just like any other part of ourselves, I am not one of those people who can be turned, that I know.
"You want homosexuals to be second class citizens because you fear they will target you and destroy the fabric of society. Bullshit! Pure unadulterated bullshit!"
Once again, I never even gave an indication that I fear homosexuals will target me. I'm not even sure what you mean by that exactly. I will be very uncomfortable in a society where such immoralities (I believe) are occuring. That's all it boils down to. I am not fearing anything. I am not ignorant. I believe homosexuality is a flaw in human nature (genuine homosexuals), which sparks immoral behaviour between two of the same sex. Irrespective whether they can help it or not, it is still immoral. Nobody is perfect. What is so hard to understand?

I believe that society is structured in a way that there is freedom, but that freedom must be restricted. Lines have to be drawn otherwise chaos breaks out. If homosexuality, a flaw in nature, is encouraged in the form of marriage and widespread social acceptance, we will see an outbreak in gay couples, many that aren't even gay, to create a society mixed with an unhealthy ratio of straight and gay couples. Who here can HONESTLY say, I mean, really honestly say that they don't see a problem with that. I for one, find it disgusting, and it just goes to show which direction our society is headed. There needs to be restrictions. Let's say I want to walk around naked, it's part of my nature, but it will offend people as people find it immoral. Just like I find homosexuality immoral.

In relation to that quote in bold, what point are you trying to make? Isn't that what the media is doing, by encouraging homosexuality? Intentially or a side-effect it doesn't matter. And with this gay rights bullshit, it's only adding fuel to the fire. I believe I won't be turned into a homosexual, I believe I am immune to such things in the media, I love my girlfriend, but I believe, like with the instance with my cousin, that it can happen. I had a close relationship with him, and I can assure you he was hetro before, he made that very clear.
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Old 10-03-2004, 01:58 AM   #111
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Quote:
Originally posted by indra


Sorry hon, but you come and spew hatred, you are going to get taken to task. Your posts show great hate bred by irrational fear. If you replaced homosexual or gay in your posts with the word atheist you would maybe be able to see the fear and irrationality of your argument. But I doubt that will happen.

To anyone else offended by my last couple of posts...sorry, but I have seen and felt firsthand what such bigotry can do to people, and I can't help but be very angry.
Alright close this topic mods. I am tired of this shit. I am not 'spewing hatred!' I don't approve of some people's behaviour, I don't hate them! I never even mentioned hatred towards homosexuals. Also you did the same thing with the 'fear' comment. I made that quite clear that I do not fear them. We are just going around and around in circles and I am repeating myself and correcting major misinterpretations\(the fact that people don't read my posts) TOO much. Mods can we please close this topic?
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Old 10-03-2004, 02:11 AM   #112
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freedom must be restricted
And this is the fundamental flaw of your logic, freedom is not to be restricted (unless of course it injurs anybody). Such a statement is contrary to the principles of liberty.

You believe that you cannot be turned gay, thats just fine because I agree with you. You are not some sort of superman who can resist gay propaganda - people have a sexuality and it is very hard to change or quite simply a straight guy cannot get a hard on for men.

Now your cousin may have been so overtly hetero because he was overcompensating. It has been known to happen, also in sometimes more tragic circumstances such supression of ones feeling leads to depression and ultimately suicide.

A society that can overcome such petty predjudice is one that I would like to live in. Where people can live their lives freely. What you advocate is not freedom, it is slight opression. I do not think that it is logical to disallow such a practice which does not injure anybody, Can you provide me a reason based on logic that homosexual relationships are inherently wrong? If you choose the most obvious procreation argument then is it not also wrong to have a childless married couple?
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Old 10-03-2004, 05:42 AM   #113
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Originally posted by shrmn8rpoptart


your argument seems to fall a little short. surely if you looked far enough, you might find an instance or two where someone engaged in homosexual sex thinking that there were no harm in doing so, and ended up hurting others. wait, you already did point some of those instances out. i guess that rules out the statement "nothing...argues that being gay somehow harms society--ever."

You didn't read closely enough. I said that being gay, in and of it itself, causes no harm. Again, that doesn't mean that issues related to homosexuality can't be harmful--it just means that gayness, all by itself, is not a reason to panic.
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Old 10-03-2004, 05:47 AM   #114
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If I looked hard enough I could find somebody injuring another person with a rubber chicken, I hardly think that such extremely rare instances would represent any more of a danger than that posed by heterosexual relationships. This is not advocating an "if it feels good do it" society, I believe that if we can acknowledge loving relationships between people the world can be a better place. The progression towards acceptance of such things will take time - but it is an inevitability. Mankind has always been able to divide because of race and gender, today (in the western world) one of the last remaining barriers is sexuality - how will breaking this down be a bad thing for sociert. During the civil rights movement many of the same arguments could have been put forward about having negro's integrate into what where once higher stations. It is a simple matter of civil rights, this is nowhere near as big an issue as race or gender equality - it is really a non-issue that is blown out of proportion by some of the more outspoken opponents.

Two questions and you may see the paradox that you build up here.

Do you believe in equality for all, yes/no

Homosexuals should be entitled to said equality, yes/no

Do we really need a morality police making sure that immoral acts do not take place, that peversions of nature are banned. Where would such a system end - because as we know banning public expression homosexuality does not end it, it merely drives it underground and back into being a subculture, again. I would not want to live in a society where such an illogical moral code were enforce upon the populus - where would it end? Would I be dragged away for having an Asian girlfriend?

Here is a good question for you, is something like masturbation as immoral as homosexuality? It serves no purpose for procreation and its criteria are match up pretty well.
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Old 10-03-2004, 05:48 AM   #115
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BTW, I don't feel that this thread needs to be closed. There's some productive argument going on here, and it seems that people are restraining themselves pretty well from personal attacks, given the nature of this subject.

That said, I and the other mods will be watching this thread closely to prevent derailment and flaming.
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Old 10-03-2004, 05:50 AM   #116
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One more thing: I don't think you've adequately explained how, while you believe that gays are actively trying to "convert" straights and that they might be trying to convert you and your loved ones, that is not homophobic. I'm not saying you are homophobic, or that you hate gays, or anything. I don't know what's in your heart. But I would like to know how a belief that is pretty irrational, IMHO, doesn't qualify as homophobic.
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Old 10-03-2004, 06:19 AM   #117
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I think pax has the right idea.

Everybody keep it cool, though.

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Old 10-03-2004, 06:45 AM   #118
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gays
straight
bisexual

ASEXUAL
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Old 10-03-2004, 07:40 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally posted by AcrobatMan
gays
straight
bisexual

ASEXUAL

don't forget trisexual (will try anything)
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Old 10-03-2004, 08:14 AM   #120
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Hooray for España. I wish the US would get its act together.
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