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Old 10-02-2004, 11:08 PM   #91
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As for Aussie....homosexuality is not something you catch. Have you ever considered that your cousin says he was converted to avoid your obvious scorn? Perhaps to him it is better to be thought "converted" to homosexuality than to admit, especially in light of your attitude, that he actually is gay.
Sexuality is malleable, it's not fixed. Just like my sexual preference on the ideal woman can change, my preference regarding gender can also change, sparked by reasons in previous posts, and the fuse IMO should not be exposed.
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Old 10-02-2004, 11:09 PM   #92
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Somebody is sick with a bacterial infection, it is treated with an antibacterial agent however a very small ammount of the bacteria have an immunity to this agent. These survive the treatment and grow exponentially, them and all their offspring are resistant and when this infection is treated the antibacterial agent is innefective.

As for large scale evolution I suggest looking over the gradual progression of life on the planet, from the first archaea through to vertebrates, how over time species change and diversify in respone to population pressures. Add in a lot of time (3.9 billion years) these minor changes really add up. It is unwise to attempt to cloud your understanding of the world with ignorance because some may dictate faith means you must be dumb, understand the world in all of its complexities for what it is - you may find that that appreciating "Gods work" through understanding is better than ignoring it to uphold superstition. Basically God (if such an entity exists) would not have favoured sentient life forms to come into being and allow them to have intelligence but then forbid them to use it.
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Old 10-02-2004, 11:11 PM   #93
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What do you mean ideal woman change, I like slight brunettes most and it hasn't changed - no matter what is cool. Sexuality for most people really is pretty static, live and love - thats what makes life great.
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Old 10-02-2004, 11:25 PM   #94
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Put it this way, my ideal partner changed from Cameron Diaz to Jessica Alba. For whatever reason, my sexual preference in that sense changed. I don't care for Cameron's type anymore, Alba's the wave of the future! And who knows, through some immoral promotion, it may change from Jessica Alba to Dean Cain.
Sexuality\preference can't be set in stone. If I was born into a family of bears, never seeing any humans, I wouldn't be fantacizing about my Brown hair-5ft11 chick, I would probably at my favourite bear.
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Old 10-02-2004, 11:26 PM   #95
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Originally posted by shrmn8rpoptart


your argument seems to fall a little short. surely if you looked far enough, you might find an instance or two where someone engaged in homosexual sex thinking that there were no harm in doing so, and ended up hurting others. wait, you already did point some of those instances out. i guess that rules out the statement "nothing...argues that being gay somehow harms society--ever."

If your argument is correct then no one should have sex. Period. Because there are instances where people (even straight people ) have sexual relations and hurt someone. Therefore, all sexual relations should be banned! Get thee to a monastary, shrmn8rpoptart!

And trust me, the daughter of a closeted gay man, far more damage is done to people by the continued supression of basic freedoms for all, than by gay people getting married to other gay people. Lets face it, a gay person isn't going to become straight because society frowns on homosexuality. More likely, that person will engage in secretive and dangerous behaviour, which actually damages real people.

And, of course, as paxetaurora pointed out, some people (of any and all persuasions) are just bastards.

And as to the stop light analogy -- in my area, at night, even the police advocate stopping at red lights, checking to see if there is any traffic, and if there is none, driving on through. Too many carjackings...it's safer to technically run the light than to stay still.
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Old 10-02-2004, 11:27 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Somebody is sick with a bacterial infection, it is treated with an antibacterial agent however a very small ammount of the bacteria have an immunity to this agent. These survive the treatment and grow exponentially, them and all their offspring are resistant and when this infection is treated the antibacterial agent is innefective.

As for large scale evolution I suggest looking over the gradual progression of life on the planet, from the first archaea through to vertebrates, how over time species change and diversify in respone to population pressures. Add in a lot of time (3.9 billion years) these minor changes really add up. It is unwise to attempt to cloud your understanding of the world with ignorance because some may dictate faith means you must be dumb, understand the world in all of its complexities for what it is - you may find that that appreciating "Gods work" through understanding is better than ignoring it to uphold superstition. Basically God (if such an entity exists) would not have favoured sentient life forms to come into being and allow them to have intelligence but then forbid them to use it.
by no means am i denying anyone the right to use their intelligence. you are the one who seems to be making the assumption that as soon as someone believes that there is a higher power that exists outside of the system of nature, that they have suddenly discarded all reason, and rely soley on superstition. God has not forbid people to use their intelligence, he gives them every right to use it, and actually encourages it. but, from the way you argue, the conclusion of human reason in regards to scientific theory must be absolute truth. the fact is, they are not. all you need to do is look back through the ages at all the scientific truths that have been discarded, even though, at the time, they were thought to be "the truth". it is the fallacy of every period in human reason to believe that they have finally discovered what the absolute truth is.
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Old 10-02-2004, 11:33 PM   #97
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Scientific discovery discards theories and adopts new ones as greater knowledge is attained is why it is the most reasonable pursuit for humanity. Science deals with facts, not truths - if you wish to doubt scientific facts then I invite you to drink a glass of H2SO4 while believing that it is H2O.

Absolute truth may not be attained through science, as there may be no such thing. But objective discovery to understand the universe and our place within it is a lot better than beginning with an assumption that lacks any evidence and cannot be verified.
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Old 10-02-2004, 11:38 PM   #98
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Truth is subjective. Fact, as pursuited by science, is objective. I'm sorry, but how the hell does homosexuality tie into this?
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Old 10-02-2004, 11:38 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally posted by AussieU2fanman


Sexuality is malleable, it's not fixed. Just like my sexual preference on the ideal woman can change, my preference regarding gender can also change, sparked by reasons in previous posts, and the fuse IMO should not be exposed.
Umm...but you are still talking about females, just because your current fancy doesn't look exactly like your former crush doesn't mean you have had a fundamental change in sexual preference.

I think your homophobia stems from fear not logic...in fact that fear is very palpable. And I'm sorry you have such fear, because I feel it is stifling logic in you. It's interesting to me that you admonish people to use logic in dealing with religious/faith issues, but you are unable to follow your own advice. Do a little research (honest research, not just that of those who agree with you), and maybe your fear will subside a bit.
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Old 10-02-2004, 11:43 PM   #100
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i don't believe that any Christian has ever argued that God exists whether or not they believe He does. it would be outright idiotic for anyone (Christians included) to drink sulfuric acid while operating on the belief that if they believed the acid was water, it would be water. however, if you had given me the h2so4, and told me that after you had run conclusive scientific tests on it (and for the sake of argument, you actually had, but somehow made a misjudgement somewhere along the line), and determined it was h2o, would it not be just as foolhardy for me to simply accept the science that you used in order to reach this conclusion?

in other words, science cannot be discarded outright, but it cannot also be taken without a healthy dose of suspision. (it's late, i can't remember how to spell)
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Old 10-02-2004, 11:45 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
We had life on this planet before there was sexes, the first organisms were gay
and that is what started the tangent we're on now to answer aussie's question
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Old 10-02-2004, 11:47 PM   #102
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There is good science and bad science, in general objective discovery is a much better thing than asssumptions about the exitence of higher beings. I am not saying that there is no God - but when we deal with life on earth there is no logical reason to abandon one of the greatest scientific discoveries on the subject because there are those on earth who feel that they know everything about the way God operates.
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Old 10-02-2004, 11:50 PM   #103
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i don't agree with those who claim to know everything about how God works. i know relatively little about how God works, but i believe that scientific research and discovery is one the tools by which He reveals Himself to us.

(preparing to get ripped apart for this statement by all sides... )

whatever though, it's one in the morning, time for sleep
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Old 10-03-2004, 12:24 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally posted by indra


Umm...but you are still talking about females, just because your current fancy doesn't look exactly like your former crush doesn't mean you have had a fundamental change in sexual preference.

I think your homophobia stems from fear not logic...in fact that fear is very palpable. And I'm sorry you have such fear, because I feel it is stifling logic in you. It's interesting to me that you admonish people to use logic in dealing with religious/faith issues, but you are unable to follow your own advice. Do a little research (honest research, not just that of those who agree with you), and maybe your fear will subside a bit.
Oh please, I'm not full yet, Please continue shoving words in my mouth! I am not a homophobe! I am not scared of homosexuals or their lifestyle! This is happening too much on this forum, please stop saying things that aren't true. I never EVER made any indication that I feared homosexuals and that I was a homophobe myself. This is just getting annoying now.
And no, try and seperate 'crush' and 'sexual preference.' I know what a crush is, and it is quite different from what we perceive as ideal partners. Blah Blah Blah, I've said all this before.
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Old 10-03-2004, 12:29 AM   #105
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Guy's let's just make this very clear. Just because someone see's homosexuality as morally wrong, it does not mean they are homophobes and fear gay's. What is so difficult to understand?
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