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Old 02-27-2006, 09:04 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally posted by blueyedpoet
Here's what i don't understand about believers in God who are "pro-life":
According to many traditions, believers in God believe that God bestowed upon human beings free will. Humans are set apart from other animals and other forms of life, because we have free will. Does a fetus have free will? Pro-life, God believing people argue that the fetus doesn't have a choice in the matter, so they need to defend the fetus's rights. That's admitting the fetus doesn't have free will. Therefore, the fetus isn't human.
Do you think the fetus would choose to kill itself? Is the fetus a fish or monkey if it's not human?
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Old 02-27-2006, 10:54 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally posted by blueyedpoet
Does a fetus have free will? Pro-life, God believing people argue that the fetus doesn't have a choice in the matter, so they need to defend the fetus's rights. That's admitting the fetus doesn't have free will. Therefore, the fetus isn't human.
Having free will and being able to exercise free will are two different things. Your underlying premise is false.
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Old 02-27-2006, 11:37 AM   #93
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If the killing of innocents is a regrettable albeit acceptable and legal (within parameters) consequence of war, should it also then be a regrettable albeit legal consequence (within parameters) of unwanted pregnancy?

Can anyone explain the difference?
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Old 02-27-2006, 11:55 AM   #94
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Intentional killing of innocents is not permitted in war. Uniformed soldiers have been convicted for violating this basic rule.
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Old 02-27-2006, 12:33 PM   #95
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Soldiers are convicted when they violate orders and act on their own.

When they are ordered to take down an enemy target surrounded by human civilian shields, they are not convicted.
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Old 03-07-2006, 04:48 PM   #96
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I know this ins't in SD or even the US, but this is an example of what I was wondering about when people talk about making abortion legal only for rape, incest, and when the mother's life is in danger.

Quote:

Rape Victims Denied Abortions in Mexico

By IOAN GRILLO (Associated Press Writer)

MEXICO CITY - State officials across Mexico routinely deny rape victims legally allowed access to safe abortions, a human rights group reported Tuesday.

The study by the New York-based Human Rights Watch was presented three years after Mexico drew international criticism when a teenage rape victim was denied an abortion and brought her case to the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights. Little has changed since then, the report said.

"Again and again, we are finding the same cases of women going through the first trauma of being raped and then going through another trauma at the hands of government officials," study author Marianne Mollmann said.

Titled "The Second Assault: Obstructing Access to Legal Abortion in Mexico," the 92-page report was based on interviews with more than 100 lawyers, doctors, officials and rape victims across the country.

It cited the case of a 12-year-old rape victim from a village in southern Mexico who was denied an abortion despite repeated requests by her and a social worker who tried to help her.

"I went to the health centers linked to Social Security. I went to the public hospital. I went to the offices of those in charge," the social worker, Hilda Chavez, said in the report. "Everyone turned their back. They said: 'It is not possible.'"

Mexican law permits abortion in all 31 states and the capital, Mexico City, for women who have been raped or whose health is in danger because of a pregnancy.

But in 29 states, there are no clear legal or administrative guidelines on how to guarantee access to safe and legal abortions, the report said.

Veronica Cruz, director of a rape crisis center in the central city of Guanajuato, said the 10 victims she has worked with since 2000 had their requests for an abortion denied.

Blocked from getting legal help, many women and girls seek clandestine abortions, which can cost as little as $200.

"As countless studies have shown, such clandestine abortions are generally far more dangerous than legally regulated procedures," the report said.

"Some women and girls die as a result. Others endure grave injury from unsafe abortions: infection, uterine perforation, pelvic inflammatory disease, hemorrhage and other injury to internal organs."

The report urged Mexico's Congress to pass a national law providing for safe abortions and for the federal government to punish those officials deliberately blocking access to these services. It also recommends that state governments carry out public information campaigns to inform women of their rights.

Federal law simply states that abortion "is not punishable ... when the pregnancy is the result of rape."

Cruz believes the situation stems from Mexico's traditionally macho culture and from the influence of the conservative Roman Catholic Church - about 90 percent of Mexico's citizens are at least nominally Catholic.

"A lot of government officials start lecturing the victims about their own personal beliefs. They sometimes say women should not have been wearing short skirts or have been out late. They say abortion is wrong," Cruz said.

Mollmann argued that it is not a cultural issue.

"Rape and abuse are not cultural. They are problems of officials' attitudes toward human rights," she said.

article here
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Old 03-08-2006, 12:12 AM   #97
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come in late as usual, i still believe that a baby is not a living functioning human being until it can live outside the womb. Therefore i dont think abortions at 4-5 months+ are acceotable (though usually none are done after this point) Before that the embreyo is just that, it cant live on its own, it can't breathe air etc so its not a "human being" Im talking about helping it along as well.

i just think, this is not a religious matter. In a secular society, you cannot let religion decide laws. Because it just doesnt work that way. I dont want someone who believes in something i find hilariously funny to tell me what i can and cannot do.
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