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Old 02-24-2006, 12:38 PM   #61
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Originally posted by najeena
How can someone who supports the right to abortion be against the death penalty? Maybe the difference is the person on death row is a sentient being who knows just what is going on, and the baby-to-be is not by by definition.


i'll add that it is because the death penalty is a terrible means to deter crime and an even worse method to met out punishment -- it is highly racist, and classist, and it is the finality of the death penalty that makes it impossible to ever implement with 100% certainty 100% of the time.

it also begs the question -- how do you prove that killing is wrong by killing people?

it also places a premium on revenge and appeals to our basest of instincts -- an eye for an eye!
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Old 02-24-2006, 12:51 PM   #62
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Originally posted by Utoo

I would say that getting pregnant after intentionally having sex with someone is vastly different from getting pregnant because a stranger raped you!
Indeed it is. But why would rape have ANY bearing on an unborn baby's right to live? It doesn't. Unless you are concerned with the quality of the life of the mother.


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Do you seriously believe that getting raped because you walked alone at night is really your own fault??? I find that to be an extremely awful point of view. I can only hope you're playing devil's advocate...
Of course I'm playing devil's advocate! Sheesh...but don't you see? The determination of the baby's right to life being based on the degree of "fault" of the mother is the absurdity that I'm pointing out.
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Old 02-24-2006, 01:06 PM   #63
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How easy is it to obtain morning-after pills? I think rape victims and anyone should have access to them for free without having to have a rape kit done. Then there's no need for an abortion.
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Old 02-24-2006, 01:08 PM   #64
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Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic
How easy is it to obtain morning-after pills? I think rape victims and anyone should have access to them for free without having to have a rape kit done. Then there's no need for an abortion.
I'm sure it depends on who and where but it's not that easy.

Some women in this country can't even get birth control. One of the major grocery chains in the country leaves it up to the pharmacists discretion if they want to dispense to someone or not.

If you went to a hospital you could get it after rape for instance but most victims don't seek immediate help to begin with.
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Old 02-24-2006, 01:12 PM   #65
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Originally posted by redkat


I'm sure it depends on who and where but it's not that easy.

Some women in this country can't even get birth control. One of the major grocery chains in the country leaves it up to the pharmacists discretion if they want to dispense to someone or not.

If you went to a hospital you could get it after rape for instance but most victims don't seek immediate help to begin with.
Exactly. We have many more issues here in the States than simply to abort or not to abort. If we had proper health care and access to birth control, I think abortion would be less of an issue.
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Old 02-24-2006, 01:19 PM   #66
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Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic


Exactly. We have many more issues here in the States than simply to abort or not to abort. If we had proper health care and access to birth control, I think abortion would be less of an issue.
exactly if it were easier to get the morning after pill it would really help.

I was going to add that I believe planned parenthood (if you have one near you) would have it without the intimidation of having to go to a hospital or dr. if the woman didn't have insurance.
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Old 02-24-2006, 01:26 PM   #67
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Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic
How easy is it to obtain morning-after pills? I think rape victims and anyone should have access to them for free without having to have a rape kit done. Then there's no need for an abortion.


and there are those that believe that the morning after pill is tantamount to an abortion.
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Old 02-24-2006, 02:45 PM   #68
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I would support a federal birth-control program, but we don't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting one.
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Old 02-24-2006, 05:45 PM   #69
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Also, I don't like how anyone can anonymously get an abortion and that's the end of it.
Actually, it's not that easy to get an abortion these days.

As of right now, many states have laws telling you who can and can't get an abortion. It's not like anyone can walk in a clinic and get an abortion. First, you have to be of a certain age--16 or 17 is the cutoff for most states before you have to get a parent's consent--and some places it might be 18 now. Second, you don't get the abortion the first time you go into the clinic. You make an appointment where they talk to you about your choices. Then you have to wait a while--there's a time period required by law that you have to wait before you can actually get an abortion. Plus, it's not really that anonymous. You're walking into a place that is under surveillance by multiple video cameras and protestors (usually). Also, doctors can refuse to perform the abortion based on how long you've been pregnant. Many will refuse to do one after 20 weeks, unless the health of the mother is at risk.

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Many women who make that choice have a terrible time dealing for a long time after. If abortion is going to be legal, there should be a counselling component offered or required.
Many states required counselling before the abortion, in order for the woman to be completely sure she wants to do it. And many states also require what's called "after care" for the woman to attend once the abortion has been performed.

I don't know if any of you know a woman who's had an abortion, but it's not an easy decision to make. I don't know of anyone who's had an abortion who made the decision because she just didn't want to be inconvenienced. I don't feel judging someone based on the decisions she's made is an adequate response to the real problems at hand.

Personally, I would consider myself against abortion, but I have a real problem with telling other women what they should and shouldn't do. I feel it's a decision that should be between the woman and God. But that's just me.

I find it unfortunate that South Dakota is willing to do this because it will only cause women seeking abortions to travel to other states or receive "back alley" abortions. No matter what, women are going to get abortions. Sad, but true.
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Old 02-24-2006, 09:46 PM   #70
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The fertilization process is not instantaneous, it can take days for the sperm to reach the egg in the fallopian tube. The morning after pill prevents fertilization, a blastocyst is never formed. How can this be called an abortion?
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Old 02-24-2006, 10:03 PM   #71
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Some of the points you made AliEnvy are very good ones.

I honestly can't understand how people can be okay with abortion in the case of rape but positively against it in all other situations. If you believe it's human life there, how would the horrible fact that the mother was raped justify what would then be murder?

oops I had to edit that but I agree with a lot of what you said too najeena
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Old 02-24-2006, 10:35 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally posted by najeena
The fertilization process is not instantaneous, it can take days for the sperm to reach the egg in the fallopian tube. The morning after pill prevents fertilization, a blastocyst is never formed. How can this be called an abortion?
Well that's interesting, I always thought the morning pill acted like an IUD and prevented implantation after conception.

No one fusses about IUDs though...why is that? Is it because a woman proavtively chooses a widely used and accepted birth control method before having sex as opposed to the perception of reactively correcting a mistake?

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Old 02-24-2006, 10:53 PM   #73
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Thx, VertigoGal.

Did anyone see the episode of Six Feet Under when Nate was "visited" by his children of various ages who had been aborted by his ex-girlfriends?

It's not a point of view we get to see very often and left me wondering if generally a man thinks about what might have been after an abortion as much as a woman does.
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Old 02-24-2006, 11:29 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally posted by redkat
Driving through South Dakota it's clear where they stand. Anti abortion billboards throughout.
This is quite true, as I've been through there many times myself. Nebraska was the same way. However, at the same time, we get the Rapid City Journal here, and I've been reading that a bit lately, and in the recent weeks I've read it, I was a bit surprised at how many letters I saw that were against the abortion ban. I'm rather glad to see many letters against the ban, was just surprised at how many there were.

Yeah, a ban on abortion in general would be utterly stupid. Not only would it discount all the potentially necessary reasons for a woman doing this, but it also wouldn't solve a damn thing. The abortions would still happen. If people want abortion to stop, they really, really need to deal with the problems that lead to women having them in the first place. I don't understand why people don't realize that, why they think a simple ban will just solve everything.

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Old 02-25-2006, 07:27 PM   #75
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AliEnvy, I stand corrected. The pill we're talking about prevents ovulation or the fertilized egg from being implanted. I'm not sure where I picked up that erroneous informaton.

I would also point out that a woman's body surely expells fertilized eggs along with the menstrual flow occasionally, without the IUD or the morning after pill.
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