Sources of Information

[FizzingWhizzbees]

In the true spirit of "Free Your Mind" I've decided to learn more about ideas/opinions which I would normally reject without a huge amount of consideration. So, bearing in mind that I'm pretty left-wing (or liberal as some people describe it), would some of the conservative people care to post some links to websites they often get their political information from so I can learn more about your arguments. I can't promise I'll agree with a word of it, but at least then I won't be guilty of not educating myself about different points of view.

Besides, I figure we're all more likely to have friendly and civilised discussions if we better understand what people think/why they think it. Anyone agree?

 

[Laura M]

Can i just ask something and be nosey?

What is a conservative and what is a liberal??

Whats the difference/ Are the political parties like our political parties i.e. sein Fein, SDLP, PUP, etc etc etc??????

sorry for being nosey FW

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

Can i just ask something and be nosey?

What is a conservative and what is a liberal??

Whats the difference/ Are the political parties like our political parties i.e. sein Fein, SDLP, PUP, etc etc etc??????

sorry for being nosey FW

Well, in the US the Republican party are conservatives and the Democrats are liberals. (Some people would disagree, but that's true as a general rule)

Of that parties you mention, I think all the Unionist parties are conservative and both Sinn Fein and (to a lesser degree) the SDLP are more liberal.

Does that answer your question at all? Sorry if I've just confused you even more.

 

[Laura M]

Well, in the US the Republican party are conservatives and the Democrats are liberals. (Some people would disagree, but that's true as a general rule)

Of that parties you mention, I think all the Unionist parties are conservative and both Sinn Fein and (to a lesser degree) the SDLP are more liberal.

Does that answer your question at all? Sorry if I've just confused you even more.

see im a bit stupid- what *IS* a conservative party? What do they want you know what are there principles bla bla bla?

How come the republican parties are more liberal?

blarg i dont understand politics...sorry FW i think im more confused

 

[Lemonite]

So, bearing in mind that I'm pretty left-wing (or liberal as some people describe it),

I think the term you specifically used to describe yourself was 'Socialist'...

I'll send ya a few...

L.Unplugged

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

see im a bit stupid- what *IS* a conservative party? What do they want you know what are there principles bla bla bla?

How come the republican parties are more liberal?

blarg i dont understand politics...sorry FW i think im more confused

Conservative parties usually favour low taxes, minimal welfare state (ie health, social security etc), very strict policing (for instance, would rather see people who commit drug-related crimes sent to prison than given treatment), traditional social values (ie against letting gay couples adopt children, view a family of wife, husband and children as ideal).

Liberal parties believe higher taxes are acceptable in order to provide better public services, the think we should have social security benefits for people who can't find work or are unable to work, and are usually less 'traditonal' than conservatives in that they're more accepting of people having children without being married, or in favour of protecting people from discrimination because of their sexuality.

I know there are going to be people who disagree with those descriptions, so you'll probably want to read a conservative's response to this to see what they think conservatism means.

 

[Laura M]

oooh im learning and i now understand!

Conservative parties usually favour low taxes, minimal welfare state (ie health, social security etc), very strict policing (for instance, would rather see people who commit drug-related crimes sent to prison than given treatment), traditional social values (ie against letting gay couples adopt children, view a family of wife, husband and children as ideal).

Liberal parties believe higher taxes are acceptable in order to provide better public services, the think we should have social security benefits for people who can't find work or are unable to work, and are usually less 'traditonal' than conservatives in that they're more accepting of people having children without being married, or in favour of protecting people from discrimination because of their sexuality.

I know there are going to be people who disagree with those descriptions, so you'll probably want to read a conservative's response to this to see what they think conservatism means.

WOW-- omg that helped so much LOL

I think thats like the tories and the labour party in Britain but i dont think Sein Feinn and PUP etc have control over our taxes here.

Oh and one more question- Why would Liberals & Conservatives argue in the US- is this really a big deal???


i think I would be a liberal- they have better values and dont stick with whats traditional except high taxes but despite that i think i would be a liberal :idea:

Thanks FW


EDIT- one more thing i promise- know the way you said liberals want social security for liberals for ppl who dont have work- do the conservatives not want to give them money???? Thats just wrong! Very wrong

Oh yeh and ONE moooore questioin! PROMISE- who r in power at the moment the libs or the conservs?

 

[KhanadaRhodes]

Re: oooh im learning and i now understand!

Oh yeh and ONE moooore questioin! PROMISE- who r in power at the moment the libs or the conservs?

i believe the conservatives (republicans) are in power right now...i'm not sure about the percentages of each party in senate and the house, but i know our president is a republican. i *think* usually the majority party in power tends to be whatever party has a president in office. clinton was a liberal, and i believe it was mostly democrats in office from 92-00. but i could be wrong. i was like 10 when he was elected so i wasn't that much into politics.

 

[Laura M]

Re: Re: oooh im learning and i now understand!

i believe the conservatives (republicans) are in power right now...i'm not sure about the percentages of each party in senate and the house, but i know our president is a republican. i *think* usually the majority party in power tends to be whatever party has a president in office. clinton was a liberal, and i believe it was mostly democrats in office from 92-00. but i could be wrong. i was like 10 when he was elected so i wasn't that much into politics.

conservatives libs democrat...so much to take in

Ok and can i ask more questions?? *please dont shout at me for asking so much quivers in little Dm boots (they are red! )*

Im taking it a republican in Us is not same as it is here???

Republican here is a catholic and then you have the loyalist parties who are protestant.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

Re: oooh im learning and i now understand!

I think thats like the tories and the labour party in Britain but i dont think Sein Feinn and PUP etc have control over our taxes here.

Yeah, that's right - the Tories are conservatives and Labour are liberals. (But like I said, conservative/liberal are used more in the US - in Britain Labour describe themselves as "social democrats" but that's just a difference of words more than anything else.) Do you live in Northern Ireland? If you do then Sinn Fein/PUP/Ulster Unionists have some control of taxes etc through the Legislative Assembly, but the British government at Westminster also have a lot of control and the Sinn Fein/SDLP/Ulster Unionist MPs have less input there.

Oh and one more question- Why would Liberals & Conservatives argue in the US- is this really a big deal???

Well, there are loads of other issues liberals and conservatives disagree about (stuff like foreign policy, aid to other countries, lots of other things) so they have plenty to argue about

EDIT- one more thing i promise- know the way you said liberals want social security for liberals for ppl who dont have work- do the conservatives not want to give them money???? Thats just wrong! Very wrong

Most conservatives don't think we should have absolutely no social security, but they generally think it should be more limited than liberals do. Sometimes conservatives argue that people who are unemployed should be helped by charities etc rather than the government, but I think most conservatives do acknowledge that government has a responsibility to people who can't find work or who aren't able to work, they just like to see more limits/restrictions on it than liberals do

Oh yeh and ONE moooore questioin! PROMISE- who r in power at the moment the libs or the conservs?

I'm not sure where you live, but in Britain it's liberals - Labour. In Northern Ireland it's a bit more complicated because the Assembly was set up as part of the Good Friday Agreement and one of the conditions of that was that any decisions it makes have to have the support of Unionists and Republicans so technically neither are "in power" but the Unionists (ie conservatives) do have a majority which is why David Trimble is the First Minister.

Am I making any sense here? Sorry - I'm not the best person to explain stuff so feel free to tell me if I'm just confusing you even more

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

Re: Re: Re: oooh im learning and i now understand!

Ok and can i ask more questions?? *please dont shout at me for asking so much quivers in little Dm boots (they are red! )*

Im taking it a republican in Us is not same as it is here???

Republican here is a catholic and then you have the loyalist parties who are protestant.

Keep asking questions, nobody's going to shout at you

And you're right that US Republicans aren't the same as Irish republicans. In the US if you say you're a Republican you mean you're a member of the Republican party (ie the conservative party) whereas as you already know in Ireland if you're a Republican it means you think all 32 counties of Ireland should be one country instead of Britain controlling the six counties.

There's not as much political division along religious lines in the US either, unlike in Ireland.

 

[Achtung Bubba]

In the true spirit of "Free Your Mind" I've decided to learn more about ideas/opinions which I would normally reject without a huge amount of consideration. So, bearing in mind that I'm pretty left-wing (or liberal as some people describe it), would some of the conservative people care to post some links to websites they often get their political information from so I can learn more about your arguments. I can't promise I'll agree with a word of it, but at least then I won't be guilty of not educating myself about different points of view.

Besides, I figure we're all more likely to have friendly and civilised discussions if we better understand what people think/why they think it. Anyone agree?

See my signature:

nationalreview.com

 

[Spiral_Staircase]

Lara - Great questions! I know next to nothing about political parties outside my country, but you're inspiring me to find a bit out.

FizzWizz - here's my number one source for info

 

[Laura M]

Lara - Great questions! I know next to nothing about political parties outside my country, but you're inspiring me to find a bit out.

im quite interested!

FW-ur a very good teacher im not confused anymore & now ill understand FYM threads!

i live in n.ireland- i like the way u pick parties b/c of their principles- i know here next year ill prob pick a party of my religion.

I cant believeppl think the government shouldnt help out ppl as much without jobs!

Scandless- Id be a lib me tinks

Thanks again FW!!!!

 

[sulawesigirl4]

I cant believeppl think the government shouldnt help out ppl as much without jobs!

well, I believe there are some who would consider it scandalous for the government to pay people to sit around and do nothing. So really, there are two sides to every issue.

Myself...I fall somewhere in the middle, I think.

*edited to add this comment* Spiral, you crack me up! Nice link.

 

[Laura M]

well, I believe there are some who would consider it scandalous for the government to pay people to sit around and do nothing. So really, there are two sides to every issue.

Myself...I fall somewhere in the middle, I think.

ooooh i see your point- like here some ppl claim ?? but also have jobs but sometimes ppl cant work due to a disability or sumting- dont they have schemes for ppl to help them find work??

 

[joyfulgirl]

Can this "progressive leftist liberal" post some sites or is that for another thread?

This is a great idea, btw. Because all I want is the truth. I don't care where it comes from, or which side has it, I just want the truth. And I don't have my identity wrapped up in being right and have made a fool of myself many times in my quest for the truth. So I try to read many points of view and sometimes when there's conflicting information it's hard to know what the truth is and then you just have to keep looking at the facts and I always pay attention to my gut, too.

For example, I was a Bill Clinton supporter. But when I heard Juanita Broaderick's story (allegations of rape) it rang sickenly true for me within every molecule of my body--I found her to be very, very credible and consistent with so many women's stories. I couldn't deny it. Just one example of how I really do try to keep an open mind despite my leftist leanings.

 

[sulawesigirl4]

ooooh i see your point- like here some ppl claim ?? but also have jobs but sometimes ppl cant work due to a disability or sumting- dont they have schemes for ppl to help them find work??

Well yes of course. It's not so much that people shouldn't be helped if they are legitimately in need, but that the system shouldn't encourage people to become dependent on the government when they are perfectly capable of finding work. How exactly this should happen...well as I'm sure you'll see if either of the more ardent supporters of either side happen to come upon this thread....there is some disagreement.

 

[Laura M]

Well yes of course. It's not so much that people shouldn't be helped if they are legitimately in need, but that the system shouldn't encourage people to become dependent on the government when they are perfectly capable of finding work. How exactly this should happen...well as I'm sure you'll see if either of the more ardent supporters of either side happen to come upon this thread....there is some disagreement.

I understand & agree with what you say- ppl shoud agree more aroond here

Ppl should work if they r able- its not fair to use the government for money when ppl are able to work

 

[Laura M]

learning is brain food

Can this "progressive leftist liberal" post some sites or is that for another thread?

what is a progressive leftist liberal?

 

[RavenStar]

People always ask if I'm left wing, right wing, ao neutral(middle). I can never answer cos I'm none of them. I am very left wing in the modern sense but I am against welfare. I like the idea of OHIP (Ontario health insurance policy) but I don't like how our government lets immigrants in so easily. All you have to do is claim refugee status and you get free money, an apartment, etc.
I don't really have any references because of this.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

Can this "progressive leftist liberal" post some sites or is that for another thread?

Please post them! We'll just make this the "where do you get your political information from?" thread

 

[joyfulgirl]

Re: learning is brain food

what is a progressive leftist liberal?

Well, it's sort of someone who used to be a democrat but then realized that democrats and republicans are just opposite sides of the same coin (i.e., equally corrupt). See my post above--I just want the truth and have no strong party affiliations. I rely heavily on independent media for information (i.e., media that isn't owned by a corporation and doesn't rely on the financial support of corporate advertising).

 

[Laura M]

Re: Re: learning is brain food

Well, it's sort of someone who used to be a democrat but then realized that democrats and republicans are just opposite sides of the same coin (i.e., equally corrupt). See my post above--I just want the truth and have no strong party affiliations. I rely heavily on independent media for information (i.e., media that isn't owned by a corporation).

yes i see

Well to tell you the truth- i think all parties will boast of what they think is right but they all have faults imo so none of them are perfect- its tough choosing parties!!

politics is mind-boggling stuff!

Are any of these parties against immigrants? I think its the....tories (or labour i dunno) in britain dont want them coming in and living in the Uk- i think that is wrong too

 

[joyfulgirl]

okay, here are some sites I consider to be progressive:

www.commondreams.org
www.democracynow.org
www.johnpilger.com

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

Re: Re: Re: learning is brain food

Are any of these parties against immigrants? I think its the....tories (or labour i dunno) in britain dont want them coming in and living in the Uk- i think that is wrong too

The Tories are the most anti-immigration party in the UK, but actually Labour are getting much closer to the Tories on this issue, they now think asylum seekers should be locked up in detention centres when they come into the country, they suggest that the children of asylum seekers should be educated seperately and they believe it's safe to send people back to Afghanistan, even though the war there is still going on.
If you want to know more about it have a look at the refugee council's website: www.refugeecouncil.org.uk, it has all the latest news and responses to what the government is saying about asylum seekers.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

okay, here are some sites I consider to be progressive:

www.commondreams.org
www.democracynow.org
www.johnpilger.com

Thanks for posting those links, joyfulgirl
I really like John Pilger - have you read his latest book, The New Rulers of the World
You've probably already seen it, but www.zmag.org is another site I think is very progressive - it often prints articles by Pilger and many other left/liberal authors.

 

[cloudimani]

Whats the difference/ Are the political parties like our political parties i.e. sein Fein, SDLP, PUP, etc etc etc??????

The problem with Northern Irish politics is the policies have been overshadowed by religous and geographical differences, and by violence, so its somewhat harder to see what the real policies are, except between Unionism and Nationalism.

Although as has been mentionned Unionists tend to be conservative, and the nationalist parties liberal. The full title of the SDLP is the Social Democratic and Labour Party (whom incidentally I favour) and whose title more than hints at their policies.

Politics in the UK at the moment arent as simple as conservative - liberal, as the (so-called "New") Labour Government are barely distinguishable from the tories who proceeded them. There is little sign of socialist or liberal policies (except perhaps the NHS which is failing somewhat), but University Tuition fees are an example - it was the Labour Government who re-established them. In fact Tony Blair's politics are seen as being slightly right of centre, than left which would have been the norm for previous labour parties/leaders.

 

[cloudimani]

Re: Re: Re: learning is brain food

yes i see

Well to tell you the truth- i think all parties will boast of what they think is right but they all have faults imo so none of them are perfect- its tough choosing parties!!

politics is mind-boggling stuff!

Are any of these parties against immigrants? I think its the....tories (or labour i dunno) in britain dont want them coming in and living in the Uk- i think that is wrong too

Unfortunately narrow-minded racist and xenophobic attitudes across Europe mean more right wing politicians are gaining influence, which is not good for those trying to gain asylum.
If people see rising levels in crime its likely to be blamed on immigrants, and the rise of the National Front in France and the BNP in Britain shows a worrying trend.

 

[joyfulgirl]

Thanks for posting those links, joyfulgirl
I really like John Pilger - have you read his latest book, The New Rulers of the World
You've probably already seen it, but www.zmag.org is another site I think is very progressive - it often prints articles by Pilger and many other left/liberal authors.

Yes, I'm reading it now. He is amazing. I heard him speak here recently with Amy Goodman (host of "DemocracyNow!", a listener-supported independent radio station here). He said that one of the hardest things he's ever done is to get a book published in the U.S. Even while his documentaries are shown on TV in the U.K. and around the world, no one here would publish him because he is viewed as so controversial. Seems like such a good man, a courageous man, with a lot of integrity. I bet the Aussies on this board know him, too.

Oh, yes, add www.zmag.org to the list!