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Old 07-18-2002, 04:51 PM   #16
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Originally posted by sulawesigirl4


well, I believe there are some who would consider it scandalous for the government to pay people to sit around and do nothing. So really, there are two sides to every issue.

Myself...I fall somewhere in the middle, I think.
ooooh i see your point- like here some ppl claim but also have jobs but sometimes ppl cant work due to a disability or sumting- dont they have schemes for ppl to help them find work??
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Old 07-18-2002, 04:56 PM   #17
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Can this "progressive leftist liberal" post some sites or is that for another thread?

This is a great idea, btw. Because all I want is the truth. I don't care where it comes from, or which side has it, I just want the truth. And I don't have my identity wrapped up in being right and have made a fool of myself many times in my quest for the truth. So I try to read many points of view and sometimes when there's conflicting information it's hard to know what the truth is and then you just have to keep looking at the facts and I always pay attention to my gut, too.

For example, I was a Bill Clinton supporter. But when I heard Juanita Broaderick's story (allegations of rape) it rang sickenly true for me within every molecule of my body--I found her to be very, very credible and consistent with so many women's stories. I couldn't deny it. Just one example of how I really do try to keep an open mind despite my leftist leanings.
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Old 07-18-2002, 04:56 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lara Mullen


ooooh i see your point- like here some ppl claim but also have jobs but sometimes ppl cant work due to a disability or sumting- dont they have schemes for ppl to help them find work??
Well yes of course. It's not so much that people shouldn't be helped if they are legitimately in need, but that the system shouldn't encourage people to become dependent on the government when they are perfectly capable of finding work. How exactly this should happen...well as I'm sure you'll see if either of the more ardent supporters of either side happen to come upon this thread....there is some disagreement.
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Old 07-18-2002, 04:59 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by sulawesigirl4


Well yes of course. It's not so much that people shouldn't be helped if they are legitimately in need, but that the system shouldn't encourage people to become dependent on the government when they are perfectly capable of finding work. How exactly this should happen...well as I'm sure you'll see if either of the more ardent supporters of either side happen to come upon this thread....there is some disagreement.
I understand & agree with what you say- ppl shoud agree more aroond here

Ppl should work if they r able- its not fair to use the government for money when ppl are able to work
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Old 07-18-2002, 05:01 PM   #20
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learning is brain food

Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl
Can this "progressive leftist liberal" post some sites or is that for another thread?
what is a progressive leftist liberal?
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Old 07-18-2002, 05:02 PM   #21
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People always ask if I'm left wing, right wing, ao neutral(middle). I can never answer cos I'm none of them. I am very left wing in the modern sense but I am against welfare. I like the idea of OHIP (Ontario health insurance policy) but I don't like how our government lets immigrants in so easily. All you have to do is claim refugee status and you get free money, an apartment, etc.
I don't really have any references because of this.
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Old 07-18-2002, 05:02 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl
Can this "progressive leftist liberal" post some sites or is that for another thread?
Please post them! We'll just make this the "where do you get your political information from?" thread
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Old 07-18-2002, 05:04 PM   #23
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Re: learning is brain food

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Originally posted by Lara Mullen


what is a progressive leftist liberal?
Well, it's sort of someone who used to be a democrat but then realized that democrats and republicans are just opposite sides of the same coin (i.e., equally corrupt). See my post above--I just want the truth and have no strong party affiliations. I rely heavily on independent media for information (i.e., media that isn't owned by a corporation and doesn't rely on the financial support of corporate advertising).
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Old 07-18-2002, 05:12 PM   #24
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Re: Re: learning is brain food

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Originally posted by joyfulgirl


Well, it's sort of someone who used to be a democrat but then realized that democrats and republicans are just opposite sides of the same coin (i.e., equally corrupt). See my post above--I just want the truth and have no strong party affiliations. I rely heavily on independent media for information (i.e., media that isn't owned by a corporation).
yes i see

Well to tell you the truth- i think all parties will boast of what they think is right but they all have faults imo so none of them are perfect- its tough choosing parties!!

politics is mind-boggling stuff!

Are any of these parties against immigrants? I think its the....tories (or labour i dunno) in britain dont want them coming in and living in the Uk- i think that is wrong too
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Old 07-18-2002, 05:20 PM   #25
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okay, here are some sites I consider to be progressive:

www.commondreams.org
www.democracynow.org
www.johnpilger.com
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Old 07-18-2002, 05:32 PM   #26
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Re: Re: Re: learning is brain food

Quote:
Originally posted by Lara Mullen
Are any of these parties against immigrants? I think its the....tories (or labour i dunno) in britain dont want them coming in and living in the Uk- i think that is wrong too
The Tories are the most anti-immigration party in the UK, but actually Labour are getting much closer to the Tories on this issue, they now think asylum seekers should be locked up in detention centres when they come into the country, they suggest that the children of asylum seekers should be educated seperately and they believe it's safe to send people back to Afghanistan, even though the war there is still going on.
If you want to know more about it have a look at the refugee council's website: www.refugeecouncil.org.uk, it has all the latest news and responses to what the government is saying about asylum seekers.
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Old 07-18-2002, 05:37 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl
okay, here are some sites I consider to be progressive:

www.commondreams.org
www.democracynow.org
www.johnpilger.com
Thanks for posting those links, joyfulgirl
I really like John Pilger - have you read his latest book, The New Rulers of the World
You've probably already seen it, but www.zmag.org is another site I think is very progressive - it often prints articles by Pilger and many other left/liberal authors.
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Old 07-18-2002, 05:54 PM   #28
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Originally posted by Lara Mullen
Whats the difference/ Are the political parties like our political parties i.e. sein Fein, SDLP, PUP, etc etc etc??????
The problem with Northern Irish politics is the policies have been overshadowed by religous and geographical differences, and by violence, so its somewhat harder to see what the real policies are, except between Unionism and Nationalism.

Although as has been mentionned Unionists tend to be conservative, and the nationalist parties liberal. The full title of the SDLP is the Social Democratic and Labour Party (whom incidentally I favour) and whose title more than hints at their policies.

Politics in the UK at the moment arent as simple as conservative - liberal, as the (so-called "New") Labour Government are barely distinguishable from the tories who proceeded them. There is little sign of socialist or liberal policies (except perhaps the NHS which is failing somewhat), but University Tuition fees are an example - it was the Labour Government who re-established them. In fact Tony Blair's politics are seen as being slightly right of centre, than left which would have been the norm for previous labour parties/leaders.
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Old 07-18-2002, 05:59 PM   #29
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Re: Re: Re: learning is brain food

Quote:
Originally posted by Lara Mullen


yes i see

Well to tell you the truth- i think all parties will boast of what they think is right but they all have faults imo so none of them are perfect- its tough choosing parties!!

politics is mind-boggling stuff!

Are any of these parties against immigrants? I think its the....tories (or labour i dunno) in britain dont want them coming in and living in the Uk- i think that is wrong too
Unfortunately narrow-minded racist and xenophobic attitudes across Europe mean more right wing politicians are gaining influence, which is not good for those trying to gain asylum.
If people see rising levels in crime its likely to be blamed on immigrants, and the rise of the National Front in France and the BNP in Britain shows a worrying trend.
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Old 07-18-2002, 06:00 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees


Thanks for posting those links, joyfulgirl
I really like John Pilger - have you read his latest book, The New Rulers of the World
You've probably already seen it, but www.zmag.org is another site I think is very progressive - it often prints articles by Pilger and many other left/liberal authors.
Yes, I'm reading it now. He is amazing. I heard him speak here recently with Amy Goodman (host of "DemocracyNow!", a listener-supported independent radio station here). He said that one of the hardest things he's ever done is to get a book published in the U.S. Even while his documentaries are shown on TV in the U.K. and around the world, no one here would publish him because he is viewed as so controversial. Seems like such a good man, a courageous man, with a lot of integrity. I bet the Aussies on this board know him, too.

Oh, yes, add www.zmag.org to the list!
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