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Old 12-21-2006, 07:16 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Butterscotch
Sir I don't know when you joined, but what I mean is that right now they seem so desperate for bodies in uniform they are willing to buy them, even at the expense of their own lives and I find that wrong.
Please don't call me SIR, I was an NCO and worked my ass off.

The United States to my knowledge has met its recruitment goals for the last few years without many concerns. If I am wrong I will admit it. I do not have the time to look it up. Desperate, is not a word I am willing to apply to them.

Are there shitty recruiters yes. Are there shitty people in every segment of society, yes.

Quote:
Originally posted by Butterscotch
My father was in the Army, and they did not keep all their promises to him, including drastically changing the health care he had been promised he'd have for life, after he retired.
Things like this piss me off. I too do not understand the way our veterans get treated. I am not going to knock the people who are doing their jobs recruiting. They have no control over the congress or the congress of the future. And that would be who I put my anger at, not the services themselves.
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Old 12-22-2006, 01:28 AM   #32
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I agree that the recruiting tactics are shameful but I dont see anybody else offering to help these people find a purpose in life.
The military offers these people a way out and many do benefit from their time in the service.Everyone knows the risks when they sign up.
That is why I have great respect for the military men and women!
This government needs to do more to protect them and we need to do more to support them.
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Old 12-22-2006, 08:48 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by u2fan628
we need to do more to support them.
Like what?
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Old 12-22-2006, 10:54 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by redhotswami


Noone has said that any soldier was evil. We're talking about their recruiting tactics. I'm just saying how I don't appreciate how my family (and many others) has been targeted by the military simply because of our economic status.
Exactly. I don't know how this thread has derailed to assume we are bashing the men and women in uniform. It's not true. I feel sorry for them!
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Old 12-22-2006, 12:52 PM   #35
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I'm not sure but writing to our congressmen or women to ensure that the veterans recieve all of their benefits is a start.I have a friend who was a army ranger and he has trouble getting certain benefits.This man fought bravely in many conficts for ten years.
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Old 12-22-2006, 01:45 PM   #36
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[Q]I'm not sure but writing to our congressmen or women to ensure that the veterans recieve all of their benefits is a start.I have a friend who was a army ranger and he has trouble getting certain benefits.This man fought bravely in many conficts for ten years.[/Q]

Sometimes getting what you are entitled to is as simple as filling out a form.

I remember being very annoyed every year as I filled out the same paperwork for my loan reimbursement. It was tedious and a pain in my arse...but the one thing I learned is that the military is as much a beaurocracy as any governement organization and without th eproper paperwork, you are screwed. Without the patience of a saint to wait for the slow ass beast to get the paperwork processed, you are annoyed. Too often there are so many hurdles to jump through making it annyoing.
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Old 12-24-2006, 01:41 AM   #37
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they recruit poor people as Christians the same way

targetting poor people

and typically giving "signing bonus"

in some case..monthly salaries for attending Sunday prayers...
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Old 12-24-2006, 04:40 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox

Things like this piss me off. I too do not understand the way our veterans get treated.
What´s so difficult to understand?

Some of them are treated like garbage. A tradition in the Army. When they´ve done their job and come home injured or with a gulf syndrome or complain about how shitty a war (or how cruel the Army) is, the government decides to dump them because they´ve done their duty and they´re not of any substantial worth.

Shall we blame it all on the government? What about the neighborhood? Are all veterans supported by society? If not, why?

Sometimes I have the feeling there´s an "official" picture of the Army and the "unoffical" one. The official one is made up of virtues like strength, solidarity, brotherhood, fascinating tech power, the honor of protecting the country. The unofficial one is soldiers torturing or sexually abusing prisoners, soldiers killing civilians on purpose, soldiers committing suicide, soldiers coming back injured or ill, lungs pattex´d with sticky oil slime, bodies weakened by unknown diseases (hell, how come they´re unknown? What did Uncle Sam have in store this time?); soldiers who tell of the cruelty of war.

And if that wasn´t enough, this club of criminal politicians, congressmen and high rank generals, they do not honor some (a certain part) of the soldiers who gave their life.

No, you´ll only get respect if you stay a fanatic, true soldier. It´s like a team where criticism is not allowed. A little like in politics - if you want to climb in the ranks of a certain party, don´t bite the hand that feeds you.

If you turn your back to the Army, they will say you´re a traitor, don´t expect any support.

That´s so sad and disturbing. It reminds me of mafia tactics, not of the honorable clichés of the Army that government, media and society perpetuate.

Another disturbing tactic, like some people have mentioned, is to get to poor, rural areas to find people who sign up.

The purpose can be characterized as follows:
- the rich families, the winners of society, don´t need to join
- after all, they have money, so why should they risk to lose a family member?
- their wealth, the wealth of the winners, has to be protected
- rich people can afford good education
- the Army needs dumb soldiers because people who have not enjoyed a high education are much easier to manipulate
- poor people don´t have high education (their kids went to school in a bad district and didn´t get any higher education)
- you can easily get these people to join because they´re not highly educated and they need money
- the winners can lean back and enjoy their wealth being protected, while the losers fight to protect "their country" and some of them will not return
- it´s the easiest and cost-efficient way to recruit new body-material for the next American crusade
- mindset of the winners: let the poor go to fight and die, what do we care, they´re idiots anyway, they don´t deserve better; hell some of the kids we´re sending overseas would´ve ended up in gangs
- mindset of the winners: not too much honor to the dead please - society may not realize how many of its sons have been killed - and if the veterans return mouthy, drop them.. they can go sleep under the bridge


Happy Christmas FYM
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Old 12-26-2006, 11:32 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by AcrobatMan
they recruit poor people as Christians the same way

targetting poor people

and typically giving "signing bonus"

in some case..monthly salaries for attending Sunday prayers...
I'm sorry, but you have no idea what you're talking about.

I'm a Christian missionary overseas.

Neither I nor any of the many missionaries I know "target" poor people.

Neither I nor any of the many missionaries I know have ever offered a "signing bonus" or paid people to show up for "Sunday prayers."

Not to take this thread of topic, but this kind of bullshit has been mentioned a few times on this thread, and I'm not going to just let such nonsense statements stand. The recruiting tactics of the U.S. military and what I do as a missionary have NOTHING in common!

Back to topic.
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Old 12-27-2006, 10:22 AM   #40
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Quote:
in some case..monthly salaries for attending Sunday prayers...
I can speak from experience on this one! I know a guy who is a very self righteous holier than thou type ultra right wing Christian. He offered to help his wife's brother find a job after he got out of prison, and help him financially IF he joined his church, (Southern Baptist) attended regularly, and lived by its standards. Any wavering from this would result in being cut off without a cent and abandoned to the streets. (which is eventually what happened) The same guy and the same church did this to others, exchanging 'benevolence funds' for church membership and living by THEIR standards. Now if that's not the most judgemental unjust thing to use religion for, I don't know what is.(I know this has nothing to do with the Army or missionaries)

I think what happens is, when a person is that indoctrinated, they honestly believe they are right and the rest of the world is evil, and must be dealt with as such, and that justifies their actions. When you get into that type of mindset, it seems to be headed the same direction as the radical Muslim terrorists' attitude?
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