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Old 03-03-2005, 07:09 PM   #61
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NB...give it a rest....I am not taking the bait.
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Old 03-03-2005, 07:17 PM   #62
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Re: something for you dimwits to consider

Quote:
Originally posted by Zoomerang96
so often people take sides on debates simply to stand in the "right" or the "left". is it too much to ask for people to be issue-based in their opinions?

that's all. carrion.
Bear...

it is a wonderful concept.....

and I would like to say I have tried to do that in here.....

So often I find myself on opposite sides of people I admire, my head spins........

Other times, I find I am not welcome by some individuals even if I take their side in a debate....because I am viewed as being too conservative........

LOL

I do not know.
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Old 03-03-2005, 08:01 PM   #63
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i'm not asking you or anyone to change your minds.

if you're passionate enough to post about it on here, and at least appear to be openminded to the issues - how can you be faulted for it?

i may not agree with it - i may think you're crazy, but then that's my right to think that.

and as you know, my opinions are worth more than yours...
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Old 03-03-2005, 08:27 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally posted by drhark
[B]

Capitalism works best and indeed thrives in democracies. Free societies and free markets are interrelated.

Authoritarianism is necessary to enforce socialism.
it's funny you say that. i recall the united states supporting regimes in chile, guatemala, argentina, brazil, nicaragua, cuba, s. vietnam, el salvador, s. korea, uzbekistan, turkey, iraq, and s. africa, to name a few, touting their free and fair markets while citizens were left to deal with some of the most brutal goverments in history. hardly free societies if you ask me.

speaking of chile, their people elected a marxist president via democratic election...heaven forbid. don't you recall the other 9/11?



Quote:
I would argue that if you're now making a living wage, your quality of life would not increase if we became socialist. Maybe it would increase slightly in the short term until the economy came to a screeching halt. So why take the money from people who choose to succeed and be rewarded?
a "living wage" is all people need provided it includes shelter, sanitation, food, water, education, and health care. i'm not asking for any more. i'm just asking that everyone have equal access. i think it's necessary to "take" money from the wealthy so that everyone is able to have the same footing in life. i would like to know why you would possibly think it is perfectly ok to deny people anything on the above list because they can't afford it for whatever reason.

edit- i'd like to point out that i don't believe stalin's vision of "socialism in one country" to be a viable option. the success of libertarian socialism hinges on global change.

Quote:
False.
a grandiose and dramatic statement indeed, especially considering that roughly half of the earth's population lives on less than $2 a day.

Quote:
When was the Third World ever thriving?
i don't believe it ever was, but then again it never really had a chance now did it? either way, those people have done nothing to deserve to be relegated to the trash bin of history. i suppose i see a drastic change of the system as favorable to letting them rot.

Quote:
easier said than done although I believe with capitalistic American ingenuity and free market forces we'll get there soon
right, when oil companies become non profit organizations.


regarding the topic of this post, i also agree that truth does not lie in the middle. moderate ground is not necessarily the best ground. that being said, i believe that most of my opinions on issues would fall on the left side of the spectrum, not because i simply want to hold down the left, but because that's how i think. that being said, we are all the same one you look past political opinion. we are all carbon based life forms with basic needs and desires. some of us just have vastly different means of expressing them.
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Old 03-04-2005, 10:41 PM   #65
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Let's analyze this for a second here...

With capitalism, there are unlimited opportunities available for the individual to choose which is best for them. However, your idea may make someone else rich. The beauty of capitalism is that you normally wouldn't worry about making more than a high school drop out if you have a double master's degree. Post education is encouraged in order to advance your career. If you dream of having your own business, you can make that a reality. I've done it numerous times. It's very satisfying. I believe hard work should be rewarded, and I believe in providing incentives to encourage a productive society.

With socialism, the government - not the individuals - control the nation's resources. It is founded on opposition to free enterprise and a free market. Americans first considered this due to low pay, long hours, and hazardous working conditions. Our solution was to create a needy balance of regulation in free markets. Socialism is often linked closer to communism than it is to capitalism. Socialism in America would mean defeating its cause as the land of opportunity. Creating your own business would not be possible under socialism.

The interesting thing is that we have a capitalist government with a small, healthy amount of socialist principles. Many businesses provide unions, which protect jobs. Some do not, such as Walmart. However, unions are not everybody's cup of tea. A part time worker's salary would be intervened by unions as much as taxation, at least for an employee in high school.

In conclusion, capitalism is like a box of chocolates...

And socialism.. that's more like a mousetrap.
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Old 03-04-2005, 10:58 PM   #66
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Re: something for you dimwits to consider

Quote:
Originally posted by Zoomerang96
so often people take sides on debates simply to stand in the "right" or the "left". is it too much to ask for people to be issue-based in their opinions?
I agree with a few issues that my side of the debate doesn't always support. At times, it shocks people.
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Old 03-04-2005, 11:39 PM   #67
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wait, did melon say capitalism and corporate profits are one and the same? wow, that scares me. i guess shes not an entrepreneur...maybe she is. whose kidding who...she's not.
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Old 03-04-2005, 11:54 PM   #68
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What do you mean by 'socialism', Macphisto? Just curious cause it's not the same thing as communism, although you may think it is.

Most western countries incorporate a capitalist economy with some 'socialising' elements... hence 'social democracy'.
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Old 03-05-2005, 02:46 AM   #69
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I think we all make a mistake when we think our particular political point of view handles all things the best. Point is that
sometimes the conservative viewpoint is the best answer to a problem, sometimes the liberal answer is the one. When either side thinks they have all the answers, it's dangerous. I'm not about to leave my faith with either side on every issue. Both sides have made huge errors that have hurt this country. Both sides have done things that have helped.

And I think it is absolutely dangerous when one political party--either one--controls everything--particularly the radical fringe.
Unless it is an emergency situation or such an unconscienceable one (and I am sure we will differ on that), I prefer slow change.
One party's control leads to action without foresight. If nothing else, the balance of power slows things down so issues can be thought out. The balance of power forces some reason, some compromise.

Mainstream America is not radical. When the pendulum swings too far one way, Americans vote the other side in. Then vote
them out when the pendulum swings too far again. No one has a mandate forever, no matter the spin on either side.
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Old 03-05-2005, 02:49 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
With capitalism, there are unlimited opportunities available for the individual to choose which is best for them. However, your idea may make someone else rich. The beauty of capitalism is that you normally wouldn't worry about making more than a high school drop out if you have a double master's degree. Post education is encouraged in order to advance your career. If you dream of having your own business, you can make that a reality. I've done it numerous times. It's very satisfying. I believe hard work should be rewarded, and I believe in providing incentives to encourage a productive society.
I thoroughly detest capitalism. Yes, your idea may make someone else rich. What's more, capitalism just encourages people to compete rather than to co-operate and people step on others to achieve the accumulation of the almighty dollar. Forget working for the common good, let's now work for the individual profit!

I dislike capitalism even more than I dislike the sham that is the popularity contest of democracy, and that's saying a lot. Though with democracy, I can't think of any better idea that works in practice. With capitalism ... well, socialism sounds a whole lot nicer. Especially when people don't lump it together with communism.
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Old 03-05-2005, 08:00 PM   #71
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Re: something for you dimwits to consider

Quote:
Originally posted by Cow_of_the_Seas
talking to...all. carrion.
Most offensitive thread ever.

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Old 03-05-2005, 10:11 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kieran McConville
What do you mean by 'socialism', Macphisto? Just curious cause it's not the same thing as communism, although you may think it is.
No, it's not the 'same thing' as communism.

Socialism is against the success of free market and free enterprise, and demands state control over them when they become too successful.

Communism - The government owns everything and they get the most and best of everything.
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Old 03-05-2005, 11:46 PM   #73
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Re: Re: something for you dimwits to consider

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Originally posted by Red Elephant


Most offensitive thread ever.

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Old 03-06-2005, 01:21 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
No, it's not the 'same thing' as communism.

Socialism is against the success of free market and free enterprise, and demands state control over them when they become too successful.

Communism - The government owns everything and they get the most and best of everything.
I can see you didn't finish reading what I wrote. No matter.
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Old 03-06-2005, 01:47 PM   #75
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I read it, but I can care less about starting a big catfight over social democracy.
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