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Old 03-01-2005, 12:28 AM   #16
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OK I overreacted. I get the point you were trying to make but I still disagree with it strongly. I have my opinions, which I believe to be the truth. If one concedes that the truth is somewhere to the left or right of them (towards the center) on any given issue, how can they still hold their opinion when they know it isn't where the truth lies?
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Old 03-01-2005, 03:09 AM   #17
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No one should label themselves a a leftie or a right winger

No one should commit themselves to the Liberals, Labour or the Greens.

Vote for whoever you believe will benefit you most, and if you have some morals, you will also vote for whoever you will think benefit the common people, and more importantly, those who are struggling under the strains of capitalism.
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Old 03-01-2005, 03:45 AM   #18
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oh for fucks sake people. zoomer i know exactly who said this to you. ok, i can guess.

actually, nevermind the rest of it. i'm following the girl with the scarlet knickers. foreswearing from now on.
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Old 03-01-2005, 04:18 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by intedomine
Vote for whoever you believe will benefit you most, and if you have some morals, you will also vote for whoever you will think benefit the common people, and more importantly, those who are struggling under the strains of capitalism.
"Strains of capitalism"?

I think the solution to many of the world's problems is more free markets not less of them.
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Old 03-01-2005, 05:03 AM   #20
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just to play the devil's advocate here...

in the old times, slaves were forced to work, against their will.

thanks to capitalism, today we are doing the same thing, but this time, willingly.

yeah sure, slaves werent paid. they had food and shelter. but then, what is money after all?

the biggest success of capitalism is to pass itself as freedom while enslaving all. today, if your an ordinary worker at the factories or CEO of a multinational, you work just as hard as anyone. on top of this CEOs have all these concerns about their companies.

ones who 'made it', succeeded in life, rule over the ones who didnt. should we believe this?

lets believe. lets at least buy into it. cause we dont have a choice. we can question god, science, the unlimited power of nature, love, freedom... but we can not question capitalism. we have a world to feed.

OK, better get back to work
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Old 03-01-2005, 07:36 AM   #21
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Capitalism - while grossly competitive - is a method of making citizens useful in society, as are socialism and communism, but those two offer less motivation. The beauty of capitalism is the dream of financial freedom, but that does not go without a cost. You have to work to get where you want to be, even if it means competing with those who have an advantage over you. No, it's not always fair, but when you think about it, neither are other methods of government.

About the whole slavery thing, I can't say it's the same thing as it was many years ago. Let's put on our thinking caps a second. Granted that it's usually your responsibility in this system to support yourself, we aren't restricted education, we aren't physically harmed, and we can live wherever we can afford to. Yes, you can bust your butt all your life, and probably won't catch a big break. It's just like our music industry for example. But is it slavery? We're all free, we spend our money on whatever we choose, let's be thankful for our options.
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Old 03-01-2005, 08:41 AM   #22
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I think capitalism, as practiced, is only about corporate profits. If they happen to benefit labor, then it's an unintended side effect. That's the problem with it and the Bush Administration. We should have tied those business tax cuts to forcing them to hire more workers and raising their pay.

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Old 03-01-2005, 09:16 AM   #23
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I'd have to agree somewhat with the initial statement. I'm tired of both sides and I've never conformed to either. They both have good points, in my mind, but they also both get a lot wrong. For me, as a Christian, there's a lot wrong with the Republicans/right wingers. They don't focus on the poor as much as they should. The Dems are doing this. They also don't focus on the environment, which is important and dare I say Biblical. I also disagree with the typical Republican stance on the death penalty and guns. Then with the dems, I disagree on their stance on abortion and their lack of a focus on the faith community and faith issues (it seems their coming around though).

There's this new book I'm going to get this week by Jim Wallis called "God's Politics: Why the Right Gets It Wrong and the Left Doesn't Get It" I wanted to get it sooner, but I'm finishing other stuff up.

Here's a bit on the book from www.sojo.net — Wallis' organization.

"Since when did believing in God and having moral values make you pro-war, pro-rich, and pro-Republican? And since when did promoting and pursuing a progressive social agenda with a concern for economic security, health care, and educational opportunity mean you had to put faith in God aside?

"God's Politics offers a clarion call to make both our religious communities and our government more accountable to key values of the prophetic religious tradition - that is, make them pro-justice, pro-peace, pro-environment, pro-equality, pro-consistent ethic of life (beyond single issue voting), and pro-family (without making scapegoats of single mothers or gays and lesbians). These are the values of love and justice, reconciliation, and community that Jesus taught and that are at the core of what many of us believe, Christian or not.

Then the coolest quote of them all, found right on the back of the book, is from yer man!

"The Left mocks the Right. The Right knows it's right. Two ugly traits. How far should we go to try to understand each other's point of view? Maybe the distance grace covered on the cross is a clue."

- BONO, lead singer of U2
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Old 03-01-2005, 09:17 AM   #24
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I'll agree with your friend, Zoomerang. There's times I'll agree with people on the left on an issue, and then there's times I'll agree with people on the right. It bugs me when people refuse to budge from their respective sides and don't even try to listen to the other person's point of view.

Angela
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Old 03-01-2005, 09:45 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen


Then the coolest quote of them all, found right on the back of the book, is from yer man!

"The Left mocks the Right. The Right knows it's right. Two ugly traits. How far should we go to try to understand each other's point of view? Maybe the distance grace covered on the cross is a clue."

- BONO, lead singer of U2
That's a good quote right enough I even used it as my sig for a while!
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Old 03-01-2005, 11:05 AM   #26
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I look at FYM as a place to discuss why we believe what we believe, the principles behind the talking points.

Otherwise, we are just pushing pawns in a big game that we aren't going to win.
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Old 03-01-2005, 05:17 PM   #27
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In the great game of liffe, only Zoomerang96 ever gets all my pawns in a row! I was the 'friend' Zoomerang, and what I ACTUALLY said was that if you didn't stop ringing me up at 3 in the morning, I'd get a silent number!
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Old 03-01-2005, 05:21 PM   #28
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i sometimes get the impression that kieran and zoomerang are the same person
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Old 03-01-2005, 05:40 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by all_i_want
i sometimes get the impression that kieran and zoomerang are the same person
we are.

and we're gonna be you pretty soon, too.
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Old 03-01-2005, 05:40 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by all_i_want
i sometimes get the impression that kieran and zoomerang are the same person
Well they are ONE, but they're not the SAME!
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