someone please tell me where u2 stands on capitolism - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

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Old 12-27-2001, 11:39 AM   #16
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Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars:
Keynes is not the answer to the problems the third world faces, is it, Holy John?
Real regulation of capitalism will never function (just like "real" communism) because governments tend to be corrupted. Itīs ridiculous to think the world elite of capitalism could be regulated - it is them who make up the rules!
And democracy is only a nice cover, as we have seen - one of many examples - in Genova.
Well, that is probably true enough. But what's the alternative - roll over and hope for the best?

Democracy becomes just a facade - a cover - when most people either don't care/don't have the energy/time/money/influence to be a part of it. And when powerful people can get away with saying that everything is wonderful.

No wonder this comes up all the time on Free Your Mind. It's probably the biggest question of our time.
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Old 12-27-2001, 05:38 PM   #17
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Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars:
I donīt think there is one alternative or one solution. I think that this problem has so many shady sides, that it is very difficult to solve it.

One of the many parts of a possible solution would be to pay. Look, America is not only build up on its own wealth. If you look a little to the history, Americans got a whole continent practically for free (while stupid Europeans were still fighting over a centimeters of land). Ok, there were a few indians, but nothing compared to how difficult it is normally to "steal" land.

So, as you come from Australia, Kieran, I hear that there are some reparation issue the Aborigines brought up. There is some kind of justice in this, I think.

America had the working power of millions of slaves. Without them, it wouldnīt be flourishing like it is now. So first thing: pay high reparations to... well lets say Africa in general, to make the discussion easier. No one wants to pay, right, but justice has to be found. Then, the World Bank has to drop the debt, and this 100% and immediately. So other states have a little chance to gain some economical power. They have to build up their own structures, so the control doesnīt always stay in the center, which is America. With this, people from the U.S.A. and Europe have to realize that they are living on the cost of others, that - simply expressed - their cheap bananas make a child die in the third world.

As you might see, there are alternatives, and this is also known by the elites. But not too widespread in the media, is it? So you see the media is an instrument of the ones who are in power, it is not independent. It is supporting this fake democracy, because with globalisation, free trading zones, workers that work like in prisons in the textile industry f.e., we canīt focus only on our own country.

This is why the question of hating U.S. or of being "jealous" is so ridiculous. You think anyone is jealous of our wealth? Yes, sure, I would also be jealous, if my children were dying in front of my eyes for hunger.
If only America would wake up from the biggest ego trip in history... all the fat people that get heart attacks from mc donalds, all the people who are buying weapons without restrictions for "self defense" (ha ha, this is really a funny one!), if they would start a better education system, if youngsters would be educated towards real christianity, then a "clash of civilasations" (which is also a product of the crazy hype media world, that creates its spotty phrases listening to the wishes of the elites that use psychologic propaganda extensively - you think they are stupid?) would neither appear on the horizon.

And donīt forget to minimize the weapon, the oil and the drug industry, and those agencies out there...

So, happy new year, big brother!
Change the world
Quoting the above in full is probably a bit silly (I'm lazy) but yes, I agree 100% with your points. Yes, Australia has its own issues, but don't hold your breath so see them solved. I think this country is just quietly waiting for its indigenous population to drink/petrol sniff its way into oblivion. In Australia at the moment, of course, debate is like one of those nasty old fox traps. Deviate from the right-wing norm in any way, and watch those steel jaws snap shut. Quite depressing. Not saying we're unique or anything - the whole world's gone insane.
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Old 12-28-2001, 03:01 AM   #18
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I donīt think there is one alternative or one solution. I think that this problem has so many shady sides, that it is very difficult to solve it.

One of the many parts of a possible solution would be to pay. Look, America is not only build up on its own wealth. If you look a little to the history, Americans got a whole continent practically for free (while stupid Europeans were still fighting over a centimeters of land). Ok, there were a few indians, but nothing compared to how difficult it is normally to "steal" land.

So, as you come from Australia, Kieran, I hear that there are some reparation issue the Aborigines brought up. There is some kind of justice in this, I think.

America had the working power of millions of slaves. Without them, it wouldnīt be flourishing like it is now. So first thing: pay high reparations to... well lets say Africa in general, to make the discussion easier. No one wants to pay, right, but justice has to be found. Then, the World Bank has to drop the debt, and this 100% and immediately. So other states have a little chance to gain some economical power. They have to build up their own structures, so the control doesnīt always stay in the center, which is America. With this, people from the U.S.A. and Europe have to realize that they are living on the cost of others, that - simply expressed - their cheap bananas make a child die in the third world.

As you might see, there are alternatives, and this is also known by the elites. But not too widespread in the media, is it? So you see the media is an instrument of the ones who are in power, it is not independent. It is supporting this fake democracy, because with globalisation, free trading zones, workers that work like in prisons in the textile industry f.e., we canīt focus only on our own country.

This is why the question of hating U.S. or of being "jealous" is so ridiculous. You think anyone is jealous of our wealth? Yes, sure, I would also be jealous, if my children were dying in front of my eyes for hunger.
If only America would wake up from the biggest ego trip in history... all the fat people that get heart attacks from mc donalds, all the people who are buying weapons without restrictions for "self defense" (ha ha, this is really a funny one!), if they would start a better education system, if youngsters would be educated towards real christianity, then a "clash of civilasations" (which is also a product of the crazy hype media world, that creates its spotty phrases listening to the wishes of the elites that use psychologic propaganda extensively - you think they are stupid?) would neither appear on the horizon.

And donīt forget to minimize the weapon, the oil and the drug industry, and those agencies out there...

So, happy new year, big brother!
Change the world
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Old 12-29-2001, 03:40 AM   #19
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"Americans got a whole continent practically for free (while stupid Europeans were still fighting over a centimeters of land)."

Erm... wasn't it stupid Europeans who actually came to America and got it "for free"?
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Old 12-29-2001, 10:41 AM   #20
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Everybody in their position likes capitolism, it's what makes so much money for them in the end. Do they mock it? Sure. Do they enjoy it? Obviously. Do I like it when they mock it? Ohhh, yes.
p.s everybody wants reform...but that's a subject for a later time...

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Old 12-29-2001, 07:09 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Saracene:
Erm... wasn't it stupid Europeans who actually came to America and got it "for free"?
America was Europe's trash dump, where they threw convicts, religious fanatics, and political dissidents, not to mention venture capitalists who saw it as a means to get rich. But these same people all shared one thing in common: idealism and hard work--which isn't what England counted on.

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