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Old 04-30-2006, 07:28 AM   #151
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What if you disagree with interracial marriage? Should you be able to ban such books that show that it's a normal lifestyle? What about being Jewish, Muslim, or even atheist?
Or Johnny is an Islamic Facist and Wants to Blow Him Self Up. Mostly targeted at the 5-10 year old crowd. Gotta draw the line somewhere.
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Old 04-30-2006, 07:58 AM   #152
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I do not think a majority of the parents are bigots. I think the word is thrown around to intimidate people. The parents I have spoken to, including a gay couple, felt that it was wrong to read the book to second graders without parental permission. The gay parents must be bigots.

Now there are people in this forum like myself, that equate homosexuality with civil rights. We look at the struggle for equality and believe the causes to be similar.

Almost every parent I have spoken to equate homosexuality with sexuality and sex. A topic which pretty much universally is not covered in school at that age. The "kiss" at the end of the book in their minds puts the "Fairy Tale" into that category. One that opens the door to the topic, at an age that to a T every parent felt should not be open to discussion without parental permission.

They do not look at this as a Civil Rights issue.

As for Fairy Tale bias, I have gone through the first and second grade reading programs we use, and found no story that has any characters smooching. So I would assume this would eliminate concerns about bias.

As for religion...I do not believe it to be in the same category as this issue.
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Old 04-30-2006, 08:54 AM   #153
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
The parents I have spoken to, including a gay couple, felt that it was wrong to read the book to second graders without parental permission. The gay parents must be bigots.
That's interesting, but does that mean the little boxes that some like to put people into in FYM are not 100 % accurate? Perish the thought

I think maybe it does come down to that-a civil rights perspective vs a sexuality and sex perspective. Just for me it's far more important to teach kids to accept all people and that homosexuals aren't who they have sex with and/or what they do sexually. It is just who they are and they LOVE too just like we do and sex is just one small part of it, that would just be my emphasis if I had kids. Civil rights will always be more important than sex and sexuality could ever be.
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Old 04-30-2006, 10:26 AM   #154
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
I do not think a majority of the parents are bigots. I think the word is thrown around to intimidate people. The parents I have spoken to, including a gay couple, felt that it was wrong to read the book to second graders without parental permission. The gay parents must be bigots.
. . .

Almost every parent I have spoken to equate homosexuality with sexuality and sex. .
Did the parents say why they wanted to be consulted?

And just because there are no kissing Fairy Tale books in the written curriculum doesn't mean that teachers aren't reading them to their classes.

The GSA at my school had their Day of Silence on Friday b/c of NCLB testing early in the week ( ) The population of my school is mostly living in generational poverty and African-American. Many of my students equate homosexuality with sex. I thankfully didn't have to write any hate speech referrals this year but I did have to address tolerance and the idea that "gay just is" in my classes. Many of my African American students do not think discrimination, when directed at homosexuals, is wrong. It was a frustrating day.
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Old 04-30-2006, 03:21 PM   #155
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox

Almost every parent I have spoken to equate homosexuality with sexuality and sex.
But heterosexuality is not? Here in lies your problem, the parents are extremely ignorant or hypocritical.



Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


As for Fairy Tale bias, I have gone through the first and second grade reading programs we use, and found no story that has any characters smooching. So I would assume this would eliminate concerns about bias.
You don't read Sleeping Beauty anymore?


Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox

As for religion...I do not believe it to be in the same category as this issue.
True, religion is a choice.
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Old 04-30-2006, 10:53 PM   #156
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


But heterosexuality is not? Here in lies your problem, the parents are extremely ignorant or hypocritical.

I fail to understand your point....

I think its wrong to call it hypocritical. Two men kissing at the end of a fairytale opens itself to discussions that parents feel they should have with their children at a point in time they feel appropriate.
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Old 04-30-2006, 10:55 PM   #157
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Originally posted by WildHoneyAlways

And just because there are no kissing Fairy Tale books in the written curriculum doesn't mean that teachers aren't reading them to their classes.
true...doen't mean they are either.
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Old 04-30-2006, 11:08 PM   #158
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Originally posted by Dreadsox


I fail to understand your point....

I think its wrong to call it hypocritical. Two men kissing at the end of a fairytale opens itself to discussions that parents feel they should have with their children at a point in time they feel appropriate.
That response was to this:

Quote:
Almost every parent I have spoken to equate homosexuality with sexuality and sex.
Why don't they equate heterosexuality with sex?
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Old 04-30-2006, 11:57 PM   #159
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
True, religion is a choice.
While probably left for another thread, that statement is not correct in a number of ways.
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Old 05-01-2006, 12:28 AM   #160
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


While probably left for another thread, that statement is not correct in a number of ways.
You can choose your path of faith. This is a fact. Now I understand there are many levels that are involved here based on geography and ideas of salvation, but when it comes down to it, we're given free will and we can reject or embrace whatever faith.

And just like you never chose to make the conscious decision that you were attracted to the opposite sex, neither do homosexuals.
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Old 05-01-2006, 01:09 AM   #161
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


That response was to this:



Why don't they equate heterosexuality with sex?
Why take my complete thought out of context?

[Q]Almost every parent I have spoken to equate homosexuality with sexuality and sex. A topic which pretty much universally is not covered in school at that age. The "kiss" at the end of the book in their minds puts the "Fairy Tale" into that category. One that opens the door to the topic, at an age that to a T every parent felt should not be open to discussion without parental permission.[/Q]

Are you saying that teaching 2nd graders about sex period is a schools responsability?
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Old 05-01-2006, 01:15 AM   #162
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Originally posted by Dreadsox


Why take my complete thought out of context?
I didn't mean to, I just responded to the post the way it was presented, you made that comment and the kissing comment separate.

But I still ask why one kiss should be treated differently?
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Old 05-01-2006, 10:13 AM   #163
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Essentially, he doesn't think parents should have to explain why "those people" were wearing rainbow lays to their inquisitive children.
Maybe the children wanted some of those pretty leis and thought that someone had forgotten to give them one at the door???
Was there a polynesian theme to the party?
If not, why would "those people" wear rainbow leis?
If it was to advertise their gayness then I think therein lies a problem. I think it is divisive to attend an event and then use that event to make a statement about your orientation. Can't we all just BE.
Everyone should have worn the same color.
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Old 05-01-2006, 12:08 PM   #164
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If it was to advertise their gayness then I think therein lies a problem. I think it is divisive to attend an event and then use that event to make a statement about your orientation. Can't we all just BE.
Everyone should have worn the same color.


how easy for you to say. divisive? that makes me want to scream. maybe if the Republicans would stop dividing us in the first place and stop treating gay people like 2nd class citizens then there wouldn't be a need to stand up for ourselves.

the whole point of wearing the leis was to demonstrate that, yes, gay people exist and they have families and children as precious and worthwhile as the families and children of straight people, and when you're talking about an administration that has made straight up discrimination against gay people -- the anti-marriage equality amendment -- at the very center of its social policy (which is in turn heavily informed by explicitly bigoted groups like Focus on the Family headed by James Dobson), it becomes a means of necessary protest. no signs, no shouting, no marching, no protesting, just a quick way to identify themselves and show you just how utterly normal and boring your average gay family is.
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Old 05-01-2006, 12:12 PM   #165
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
I think its wrong to call it hypocritical. Two men kissing at the end of a fairytale opens itself to discussions that parents feel they should have with their children at a point in time they feel appropriate.

what about the kiss at the end of Sleeping Beauty? he wakes up the princess with a kiss -- should this have to be discussed?

it is perfectly fine for a 3 year old to understand that their mommies and their daddies love each other. also, that some people have two mommies and some have two daddies (and some one mommy, some two grandparents, etc), but that they all love each other very much. one way that people who are in love show their love for one another is to kiss them. that's all. there's nothing sexual about it, UNLESS a parent turns it into something sexual. there is kissing in every Disney movie i can think of -- do you feel the need to have a discussion with your children at the end of Snow White?

essentially, it comes down to this: if a small child can understand that sometimes a man loves another man, then the kissing between two men will be understood in just as simple and naive a way as the million-and-one heterosexual kisses they are bombarded with on a daily basis, in school and out.
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