Some More Understanding Of Bono's Position Between Iraq and Africa - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-16-2003, 06:14 AM   #16
Refugee
 
Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1,538
Local Time: 07:51 AM
The Brits are usually rather awful at electing leaders - Margaret Thatcher winning three times in a row is a fine example of that.

Tony Blair started off very well, in my opinion. The work he oversaw under his first term was highly commendable. No, he was never true Labour, and no I never did like 'him' - though I do support Labour - but I did see him orchestrating a lot of good. Despite the removal of the student grants, I do believe his government has helped the lower middle-classes, and I STILL believe they are doing far more than the Tories would have ever done. Also, he did more for the IRA peace process than Margaret Thatcher OR John Major (who I am rather indifferent to) ever did. Whereas the IRA tried to kill Margaret Thatcher repeatedly, Blair's participation in the peace process has proved effective.

The Iron Lady was truly the most destructive, irresponsible and politically vindictive leader this country has seen in a very very long time, and it is sad to see the Falklands episode all over again with Tony Blair's second term. His second term has truly been, well, awful. A Labour government not being sympathetic to the Unions, the Firemen and, due to the lack of proper economic policy implementation, seeing far too many public services failing. We have a Labour government introducing the most absurd economic policies (Congestion charging? Higher council taxes? Top-up fees?) that only exacerbate the middle classes. What have they done over the last few years that has helped Britain?

But Blair's worst crime was to be led by foreign powers against the credance of his own party. No, neither America nor Bush is the devil - but a leader, a supposedly democratic leader, has a responsibility to listen to his own people who have been repeating incessantly for months now that 'no, no, NO!'. This is his crime, he has turned his back not just on his people, but on his very own party. It is NOT for a Labour government to support war, anyway, much less one that is pre-emptive in nature.

Blair is far from being the best English Primeminister, and I do believe Bono is 'sincerely wrong' in that assesment, but he is, unfortunately, far from being the worst. I would choose Tony Blair over Margaret Thatcher anyday.

Ant.
__________________

__________________
Razors pain you; Rivers are damp;
Acids stain you; And drugs cause cramp.
Guns aren't lawful; Nooses give;
Gas smells awful; You might as well live.

Dorothy Parker, 'Resumé'
Anthony is offline  
Old 03-16-2003, 06:32 AM   #17
ONE
love, blood, life
 
FizzingWhizzbees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: the choirgirl hotel
Posts: 12,614
Local Time: 07:51 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Anthony
The Brits are usually rather awful at electing leaders - Margaret Thatcher winning three times in a row is a fine example of that.


Yes, and then, apparently having missed the fact that the country was falling apart at the seams, we elected John Major for a fourth Tory term in office. Go Brits!

Quote:
Despite the removal of the student grants, I do believe his government has helped the lower middle-classes, and I STILL believe they are doing far more than the Tories would have ever done. Also, he did more for the IRA peace process than Margaret Thatcher OR John Major (who I am rather indifferent to) ever did. Whereas the IRA tried to kill Margaret Thatcher repeatedly, Blair's participation in the peace process has proved effective.


Very true. I think that's why it's so sad to see Blair throwing away his Prime Ministership (is that even a word?) on the issue of Iraq. And to be honest, he's not only throwing away his own leadership of the party, he's opening the door of number ten to a hopelessly fragmented Tory Party

I think removing the student grant was one of the worst decisions of Blair's first term. He sets targets of 50% participation in HE and yet he introduced tuition fees and took away grants. These new proposals for top-up fees are a huge attack on working class participation in university, they'll benefit the red brick universities and middle class students at the expense of children from working class backgrounds.

And I agree about the peace process too. Particularly his involvement in the talks prior to the Good Friday Agreement. I still think that agreement provides essentially the only opportunity for progress in the North of Ireland and I wish Blair would be stronger in standing up to Unionists who are trying to destroy the peace process.


Quote:
The Iron Lady was truly the most destructive, irresponsible and politically vindictive leader this country has seen in a very very long time
[/b]

Couldn't have said it better myself!

Quote:
His second term has truly been, well, awful. A Labour government not being sympathetic to the Unions, the Firemen and, due to the lack of proper economic policy implementation, seeing far too many public services failing. We have a Labour government introducing the most absurd economic policies (Congestion charging? Higher council taxes? Top-up fees?) that only exacerbate the middle classes. What have they done over the last few years that has helped Britain?


They've handled the FBU strike incredibly badly. When you've even got the most moderate sections of the trade union movement criticising the government, you know they've made a serious mistake. And it's turning the rest of the trades unions against Labour because the attacks on unions, you only have to look at the series of left-wing general secretaries who've been elected in the last few years to see that. It's not even in the traditionally left unions either, it's in PCS, AMICUS etc.

Although to be fair, I thought congestion charging was the right idea, and it had nothing to do with the Labour government - it was Livingstone's policy.

Quote:
But Blair's worst crime was to be led by foreign powers against the credance of his own party. No, neither America nor Bush is the devil - but a leader, a supposedly democratic leader, has a responsibility to listen to his own people who have been repeating incessantly for months now that 'no, no, NO!'. This is his crime, he has turned his back not just on his people, but on his very own party. It is NOT for a Labour government to support war, anyway, much less one that is pre-emptive in nature.
What do you think is going to happen to Blair if he supports this war? I've heard some people predicting he'll lose the leadership over it, while others think he'll just be so weakened by this that the next time a serious fight comes up he won't be able to keep his job. It's interesting to see how many Labour MPs are voting against him for the first time on this, so maybe now that they've disagreed with him once, they'll be more willing to do it again.
__________________

__________________
FizzingWhizzbees is offline  
Old 03-16-2003, 09:38 AM   #18
Refugee
 
Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1,538
Local Time: 07:51 AM
FizzingWhizzbees;

Yes, congestion charging was indeed 'Red Ken's' policy, but as always, the government should get credit for the thints that go well and get blamed for things that don't go so well - they are, after all, the government. Also, if I'm not mistaken, I do believe Livingstone had support from the government, if anything.

However, from experience, congestion charging, though a good idea, has been implemented absurdly. Yes, the 'C' zone starts at Bond street, but it should start WAY before that anyway; congestion doesn't happen suddenly in Oxford Street, it accumulates from the very end of Paddington and the start of Edgware Road - that is where it should have been implemented. As a result, not only has the charge not done anything to improve the problem of congestion (because the central line has been down I have had to use the bus, and my two-hour journey for what should be a half-hour journey still remains the same), but the only thing it's doing is punishing those who need to move around in rush hour. The most who are being affected adversely are parents who are merely trying to get their children picked up from school - ordinary people trying to get from A to B to C. YES, you should charge, but you should NOT charge when the problem isn't being addressed properly at all. All this is doing, because of its disappointing implementation, is charging people for a phenomenom that is not their fault. They have no real incentive to do anything, since the problem starts way before the 'C' zone.

I do wonder what will become of Blair's political career. What a waste, and for what? For the betrayal of his very own principles, or, principles he should have. Quite clearly, Tony Blair went to the wrong party, his efforts would have been appreciated by a Pro-Euro Thatcherite culture. The only thing working in his favour is that the Tories are divided, near extinction, disorganised, and have a truly awful leader. Had they chosen Michael Portillo, they would have had a far better chance.

So; maybe Tony Blair will be dismissed. As much as I hate saying this, he doesn't have some of the endearing qualities Margaret Thatcher had, and neither does he have her balls. For lack of a better expression, his leadership seems weak, and, although we can criticise the horrors of Thatcher, we can also say that she was never considered 'weak'. I am making the comparisons between the two because I truly find it hard to believe that Tony Blair will be voted a third time. What could have been beneficial is the Labour party getting rid of him and electing a new leader, unfortunately, there is no such leader in the party.

What a dire future awaits the political landscape of our nation.
What do you think will happen?

Ant.
__________________
Razors pain you; Rivers are damp;
Acids stain you; And drugs cause cramp.
Guns aren't lawful; Nooses give;
Gas smells awful; You might as well live.

Dorothy Parker, 'Resumé'
Anthony is offline  
Old 03-16-2003, 01:05 PM   #19
ONE
love, blood, life
 
FizzingWhizzbees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: the choirgirl hotel
Posts: 12,614
Local Time: 07:51 AM
On the congestion charging, I'm sure the implementation is far fom perfect, but I think in priciple it's a good idea.

I dread to think what would have happened if the Tories had picked Portillo as leader (or even Ken Clarke, to a lesser extent). I think they'd be in a far stronger position to challenge Blair. Thankfully IDS is such a weak leader that even though Blair has made a huge mess of the Iraq situation, hopefully the situation is still salvageable and Labour won't lose the next election.

What do I think will happen? Worst case scenario, Blair keeps the leadership and continues to push through extremely unpopular policies (eg top-up fees, maybe foundation hospitals to a lesser extent) and the Tories win the next election Possibly, Blair keeps the leadership but is kept in check by the rest of the party and so manages to win the next election. Or else Blair goes, but who would replace him? I've heard lots of talk of it being Blunkett, but I find that quite hard to believe, I think the only seroius contender would be Gordon Brown. Perhaps if Blair were to go within the next year or so then a new leader would have chance to redeem himself in the eyes of the electorate and Labour could stay in office in 2006.

I think that last paragraph was actually my (very long) way of saying I don't have a clue what's going to happen.
__________________

__________________
FizzingWhizzbees is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com