Some "Megachurches" will be closed on Christmas...

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stammer476 said:


Indeed. It's interesting to see the scathing criticism from those who have never actually had to run a church service, let alone one that has to accommodate thousands of attendees.


It's interesting to see that you know how many in here have or don't have any experience.
 
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BonoVoxSupastar said:

But this is what many of them are doing the other 364 days of the year. Shouldn't we be able to call out their hypocricy? We're looking at what esentially is the birth of their religion and they are closing? Yet it's ok for them to bitch the whole month how secular schools aren't allowing Christmas parties? It's ridiculous.

What is the hypocricy? Many churches hold services only on Christmas Eve - but I guess your new rule is that they must also hold them on Christmas Day, or that they must hold them on every Sunday.

I'm quite surprised with the hypocricy card - your own prior stances that we should not declare what is "proper Christianity" must not apply. I guess that only applies when it fits your political argument.
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:

Yes, but this is what they do. Many mega churches, will have different staff doing different services from the Eve and the Sunday.

Most churches this large run on a staff that is 90% volunteer, and asking volunteers to miss large portions of their Christmas day is difficult. I'm already having an extremely hard time getting proper staffing for our Christmas Eve services.

BonoVoxSupastar said:
But this is what many of them are doing the other 364 days of the year. Shouldn't we be able to call out their hypocricy? We're looking at what esentially is the birth of their religion and they are closing? Yet it's ok for them to bitch the whole month how secular schools aren't allowing Christmas parties? It's ridiculous.B]


This is assuming that the individuals who canceled the services are the same indivuals who "bitch the whole month how secular schools aren't allowing Christmas parties."
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:
It's interesting to see that you know how many in here have or don't have any experience.

Prove me wrong, then. Anyone who has experience running and staffing a church service for mulitple thousands of people on a largely volunteer staff please speak up.

Seriously, speak up. I'm having a terrible time getting ready for Christmas, and I need some help. I need ideas!
 
nbcrusader said:


What is the hypocricy? Many churches hold services only on Christmas Eve - but I guess your new rule is that they must also hold them on Christmas Day, or that they must hold them on every Sunday.

I'm quite surprised with the hypocricy card - your own prior stances that we should not declare what is "proper Christianity" must not apply. I guess that only applies when it fits your political argument.

I have no new rule. The new rule seems to be when Christmas day falls on Sunday, we may not get our numbers therefore we're closing.

Growing up went to Christmas eve, and then Sunday service, when they coincided we didn't cancel.





Many churches hold services only on Christmas Eve - but I guess your new rule is that they must also hold them on Christmas Day, or that they must hold them on every Sunday.
I'm a little confused. You are right most protestant churches don't have Christmas services, but I've never heard of one not having service every Sunday?



This isn't a new rule or political statement. This is the birth of the reason for the Church, why aren't they celebrating it?
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:
This is the birth of the reason for the Church, why aren't they celebrating it?

They are, on Christmas Eve. I'm confused on why that is a problem for you. Do you attend one of these churches?
 
stammer476 said:


Most churches this large run on a staff that is 90% volunteer, and asking volunteers to miss large portions of their Christmas day is difficult. I'm already having an extremely hard time getting proper staffing for our Christmas Eve services.
I'm not trying to be unsympathetic to these people, believe me I understand. For years I was on staff and volunteered as an usher for a fairly large church.


stammer476 said:

This is assuming that the individuals who canceled the services are the same indivuals who "bitch the whole month how secular schools aren't allowing Christmas parties."

True this is an assumption, but one that comes from the fact that some of the loudest have been preachers from churches like these in the article.
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:
True this is an assumption, but one that comes from the fact that some of the loudest have been preachers from churches like these in the article.

"Preachers from churches LIKE THESE" and the actual preachers of these churches are two different things.

Deep breath. . . .

No offense to you BVS. It's just that I'm close to some of the lead pastors of churches mentioned in this article. I know them and I know their hearts, and this criticism is unfair and offbase.
 
stammer476 said:


"Preachers from churches LIKE THESE" and the actual preachers of these churches are two different things.

Deep breath. . . .

No offense to you BVS. It's just that I'm close to some of the lead pastors of churches mentioned in this article. I know them and I know their hearts, and this criticism is unfair and offbase.

Well then I will say no more. I do have experience with one of these churches and was very disturbed with what I saw.
 
stammer476 said:


Prove me wrong, then. Anyone who has experience running and staffing a church service for mulitple thousands of people on a largely volunteer staff please speak up.

Seriously, speak up. I'm having a terrible time getting ready for Christmas, and I need some help. I need ideas!

Nuns.

They have nothing better to do on Christmas. :wink:

No, seriously, I go to a Catholic Church and they pretty much keep it running. They run the choir (both children's and adult), they are in charge of the music and play the instruments themselves, they run the mailing list, they put out the weekly Church bulletin/newspaper, they organize the first communion and confirmation classes, they decorate the church for Christmas along with parishioner volunteers, they organize the bake sales, run the children's Christmas play, run the United Way Christmas collection, organize the order of the readings and search for volunteers and so on.

Without them, I don't think the church would run nearly as smoothly and they've devoted their entire lives to it. I have a lot of respect for the Sisters. :up:
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:
Well then I will say no more. I do have experience with one of these churches and was very disturbed with what I saw.

I'm interested in what happened. Seriously. I want to make sure that churches I am a part of don't repeat other's mistakes.

But that's another time and another thread. But there still is email . . .
 
anitram said:


Nuns.

They have nothing better to do on Christmas. :wink:

No, seriously, I go to a Catholic Church and they pretty much keep it running. They run the choir (both children's and adult), they are in charge of the music and play the instruments themselves, they run the mailing list, they put out the weekly Church bulletin/newspaper, they organize the first communion and confirmation classes, they decorate the church for Christmas along with parishioner volunteers, they organize the bake sales, run the children's Christmas play, run the United Way Christmas collection, organize the order of the readings and search for volunteers and so on.

Without them, I don't think the church would run nearly as smoothly and they've devoted their entire lives to it. I have a lot of respect for the Sisters. :up:

They sound wonderful. What I wouldn't give for some nuns! (Never thought I'd write those words :wink: )

But from someone who's in the thick of this right now, I can say that our volunteers are stretched to max, and I'm still a little unsure of how our Christmas services are going to work. Between family coming into town, increased expectations from spouses/children, special traditions, and other holiday things, we just don't have near the available staff that we would on any other Sunday of the year. We're short on musicians, we can't get enough people to set up, and don't even get me started on childcare. And this is just for Christmas Eve!

All I'm asking is that we take a walk in other people's shoes for a minute. The reality of this situation for these churches is not as smiple (or evil :wink: ) as we'd like to make it.
 
nbcrusader said:


Making plans to attend Christmas Eve services, if you care.

What about Christmas day services (seeing as it's a Sunday and all)? :wink:


I kid, I kid, I honestly don't care if or when you (or anyone else) go to church. But I just couldn't let that one pass..... :)
 
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stammer476 said:


They sound wonderful. What I wouldn't give for some nuns! (Never thought I'd write those words :wink: )

But from someone who's in the thick of this right now, I can say that our volunteers are stretched to max, and I'm still a little unsure of how our Christmas services are going to work. Between family coming into town, increased expectations from spouses/children, special traditions, and other holiday things, we just don't have near the available staff that we would on any other Sunday of the year. We're short on musicians, we can't get enough people to set up, and don't even get me started on childcare. And this is just for Christmas Eve!

All I'm asking is that we take a walk in other people's shoes for a minute. The reality of this situation for these churches is not as smiple (or evil :wink: ) as we'd like to make it.

I just figured Christmas (and Easter) for Christians is kinda like the holiday season for retail workers. It's their busy time and everyone knows that and doesn't schedule vacation then. :shrug:
 
Sorry, Aaron, didn't mean to offend you. You can disregard my statements b/c they're kind of loaded - based on one particular mega-church that no one here probably knows or cares about. It's more of a personal thing that effected a lot of people I know and has left a sour taste on both sides so we never ignore a chance to hurl one at 'em!

Also, this megachurch tends to say that it's one thing, but then if you challenged these people with some theological issue, they either don't know what you're talking about, or give an answer opposite of what is defined by the denomination they insist so fervently they're part of. Of course, we all differ slightly and change over time - just this week I completely changed my ideas on the Lord's Supper and realized I'd been wrong for 21 years - but if you continuously attach yourself and your church to a particular denomination b/c it's popular or looks good or whatever and then preach the opposite, the credibility factor goes downhill pretty fast in my book.

I criticize the particular church I have in mind because out of all the people I know that have gone there, no one has actually gone there for more than a year. See, to me, a church is as much about building a close community in order to build each other up as well as hold each other accountable, and all the people know that have tried this mega-church just aren't getting that. Also, the pastor is an amazing and inspirational public speaker, but his sermons are just stories and testimonials. There's nothing there that challenges me, nothing that has any real theological value, nothing I can take away and say "huh, I never though about it that way before...". It's basically like a "small group" of 1000 people.

I say all of this pretty much churchless myself, because our Rev. recently left to take a position overseeing a new seminary program, and he was really everything I believed in. His sermons were so thoughtful and challenging....I remember one time he was really going out on a limb with this concept he'd concocted in his head and I remember thinking "I would bet my life that this man has it right". I've never felt even close to that at any of the larger more progressive/contemporary churches I've attended.

But it really boils down to personal preference. I'm very introverted and look at things from a very practical, intellectual approach. Teaching through testimonials and praise songs moves millions of people to tears but does nothing for me. On the other hand, I read a piece by Jonathan Edwards and suddenly feel like my entire life and my existence is worthwhile after all, but others find it boring and useless. I've tried to change how I feel, but the reality is that I can't. We all worship different ways and I've found I can't get what I need from a megachurch.
 
I wouldn't worry too much about it. I think for a good chunk of the world, Christmas Day is a secular holiday. Just from observation and remembrance from my churchgoing days, Christmas Eve was always the religious part of it before the glut of Christmas Day and I still get a little spiritually nostalgic on Christmas Eve, but don't feel a thing on Christmas Day (except a pleasant mix of generosity and greed). Seems to me for the casually religious, Christmas Day is not that big a religious event.
Christians can be proud they have the cool holiday (said with no sarcasm whatsoever).

That being said, I think Christmas in general is a great holiday for the religious and secular both, for the churches and for the retail world, the one time in the year that even the coldest of us can feel guilted (or swept up in the spirit) to think of our fellow man before we forget about him on 12/26. I love Christmas and its fantasy for a few weeks that life is different than we know it is, which may actually be one definition of faith.

Besides Christmas is the secondary Christian holiday. It just gets all the PR.
 
stammer476 said:

All I'm asking is that we take a walk in other people's shoes for a minute. The reality of this situation for these churches is not as smiple (or evil :wink: ) as we'd like to make it.

Well what a novel concept that would be for FYM, wouldn't it? But maybe that's more difficult to do than it is to make assumptions/jump to conclusions and to try to jump on that which can make you "right" in your viewpoints and arguments (I'm not directing that at you stammer)
 
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