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Old 06-13-2005, 07:10 PM   #1
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Society's moral compass

Where should it come from? Most common answers are going to be church or state, but that's a load of bull when church and state both have a One Size Fits Some tag on their collar.
But lets expand this. If you do think either church or state is well able to dictate societal moral compasses, why do you think that, when you know it will leave some of society out in the cold?
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Old 06-13-2005, 07:18 PM   #2
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I think a moral compass comes from each individual. The state has an obligation to make sure people's rights aren't quashed, but not to decide morals.

The church has no part in my life so I don't care what it does, as long as it doesn't seek to trod upon my rights.
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Old 06-13-2005, 07:34 PM   #3
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Public morality should be dictated by secular humanism. Period.

Personal morality should be dictated by the religion or philosophy of your choice.

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Old 06-13-2005, 07:40 PM   #4
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I'm in agreement with Melon.

Thanks for stating it so succinctly, Melon. I probably couldn't have (having a tendancy to run on for paragraphs and paragraphs... )
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Old 06-13-2005, 07:50 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
Public morality should be dictated by secular humanism. Period.

Personal morality should be dictated by the religion or philosophy of your choice.

Melon
Public morality should be determined by the Pope.
Personal morality shuld be determined by the Pope.

Period.

Why?...because everything that is in Christianity must be interpreted by Christian leaders and then forced down our throats. This is because these Christian leaders know everything and their personal interpretation of the Bible is correct.




Lol just kidding of course. Please don't argue with me! Just a little sarcasm....... Melon's statement seems the best.
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Old 06-13-2005, 09:11 PM   #6
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A moral compass must come from something beyond one's self.

As for "secular humanism" - how does that develop a moral compass? Might makes right?
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Old 06-13-2005, 09:20 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
As for "secular humanism" - how does that develop a moral compass? Might makes right?
I'd be interested on what you think "secular humanism" is.

Secular humanism is an established philosophy that advocates approaching societal problems using reason and the scientific method over subjective theistic morality.

Determining public morality on the basis of whimsical and nonsensical religious pronouncements makes me beg the question--which religion do we pick from? For those who want prayer in public schools, I say let's crack out a round of "Hail Mary" prayers.

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Old 06-13-2005, 11:12 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
A moral compass must come from something beyond one's self.
...
Why is that? I'd guess because of the view that humans are flawed and our faults mean we cannot rely on ourselves for moral rightness and all that.
So, if we go to the next stage, that leaves God and religion, right? But, if that is what we have, how is that right when it excludes and does not look after everyone? Religion as a basis for moral compass leads to an impasse. Every follower of every belief system thinks theirs is the right one. But they do not co-exist together and do not provide a moral framework which meets the needs of all.
Ask yourself honestly. Does yours, for example, have the right to trump all others? You wont believe someone else's has the right, or you wouldn't believe in what you do.
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Old 06-13-2005, 11:41 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
A moral compass must come from something beyond one's self.

As for "secular humanism" - how does that develop a moral compass? Might makes right?
Logical axioms to derive morality. A great deal of which are inside religion. You do not need to be religious to know that killing another without cause is wrong, it is a violation of thier rights.
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Old 06-14-2005, 02:57 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon


I'd be interested on what you think "secular humanism" is.

Secular humanism is an established philosophy that advocates approaching societal problems using reason and the scientific method over subjective theistic morality.

Determining public morality on the basis of whimsical and nonsensical religious pronouncements makes me beg the question--which religion do we pick from? For those who want prayer in public schools, I say let's crack out a round of "Hail Mary" prayers.

Melon
OK, Melon, say you were put in charge of public policy. Let's assume killing (without just cause, which I'll let you define) and stealing are forbidden. What else is forbidden in your society and what is the logical and scientific basis behind it? (You may never be given this much power again)
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Old 06-14-2005, 04:16 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonosSaint
OK, Melon, say you were put in charge of public policy. Let's assume killing (without just cause, which I'll let you define) and stealing are forbidden. What else is forbidden in your society and what is the logical and scientific basis behind it? (You may never be given this much power again)
You're essentially asking me to sum up 230 years of law in one post. Unfortunately, not even a political campaign can be summed up in one post.

Melon
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Old 06-14-2005, 06:10 AM   #12
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Morality is personal. Each person has to decide what their morality is going to be. I have my moral views, and they are very different from those of my own siblings. No one can force their moral views on anyone else.
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Old 06-14-2005, 06:57 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon


I'd be interested on what you think "secular humanism" is.

Secular humanism is an established philosophy that advocates approaching societal problems using reason and the scientific method over subjective theistic morality.

So who gets to decide what is moral and what isn't ?
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Old 06-14-2005, 07:03 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by cardosino


So who gets to decide what is moral and what isn't ?

all those secular humans do. via the apparatus of laws and government.
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Old 06-14-2005, 07:09 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
all those secular humans do. via the apparatus of laws and government.
So where does religion come into all this? Or does it?
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