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Old 09-28-2005, 12:53 PM   #1
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So that´s America´s famous free speech, haha

White House Sidewalk Protest Leads to Arrest of About 370

By Petula Dvorak
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, September 27, 2005; Page B01

About 370 antiwar demonstrators were arrested yesterday after planting themselves on the sidewalk in front of the White House, a protest that stretched out for nearly five hours as police removed them in stages to avoid a backlog at a processing center.

The demonstrators, who had stayed in Washington after Saturday's antiwar rally and march past the White House, were carted away in Metro buses and police vans. Fingerprinting and booking continued late into the evening at a U.S. Park Police operations facility in Anacostia.

Those arrested were charged with demonstrating without a permit, a misdemeanor that carries a $50 fine and -- like a traffic ticket -- can be paid by mail or challenged later in court, said Sgt. Scott Fear, a Park Police spokesman.

In an action that they had planned several weeks ago and discussed with police, the demonstrators went to the White House gate on Pennsylvania Avenue NW about 12:30 p.m. and tried to deliver to President Bush the names of all the soldiers and civilians killed in Iraq. When the president did not meet with them, they sat down for their protest.

With bullhorns and hoarse voices, they yelled at the executive mansion, asking whether the president was peeking from behind a curtain or hearing them at all.

"You are a coward! You didn't meet us in Crawford; come meet us now," said Beatriz Saldivar of Fort Worth, whose nephew, Army Sgt. Daniel Torres, was killed in action nearly eight months ago during his second tour in Iraq. In August, Saldivar had joined antiwar activist Cindy Sheehan during a protest outside the president's Texas ranch, when Sheehan had asked to talk with Bush about the death of her son, Casey Sheehan, in Iraq.

Cindy Sheehan, who was among the demonstrators yesterday, was the first to be taken into police custody. She smiled at the crowd when police lifted her from the sidewalk and escorted her to a van.

At his daily news briefing yesterday, White House spokesman Scott McClellan said Bush is "very much aware" of the past few days of protests and "recognizes that there are differences of opinion" on the Iraq war.

"It's the right of the American people to peacefully express their views. And that's what you're seeing here in Washington, D.C.," McClellan said. "They're well-intentioned, but the president strongly believes that withdrawing . . . would make us less safe and make the world more dangerous."

The group arrested yesterday was led by a coalition of religious leaders. They were joined by anarchists, military families, Iraq war veterans and political activists of various stripes.






Who the fuck does Scotty believe to be - "It's the right of the American people to peacefully express their views. And that's what you're seeing here in Washington, D.C." - If this is their right, why the arrests?

"They're well-intentioned, but the president strongly believes that withdrawing . . . would make us less safe and make the world more dangerous." I see, that´s why 370 people are arrested

"Those arrested were charged with demonstrating without a permit, a misdemeanor that carries a $50 fine" - "In an action that they had planned several weeks ago and discussed with police"- if they discussed it several weeks w police, how can they be arrested for demonstrating without permission? Or didn´t they get any bc the police refused? If thats the case, why did it refuse to give permit - on higher command?



So this is what free speech in America is like!

Thanks George W., you have opened my eyes.

Duh. What an absolutely ugly country America has become. I would be afraid to live there
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Old 09-28-2005, 01:06 PM   #2
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oh come on.

i was at that protest and support many of their goals, i think Iraq was a bad idea, and i loath the Bushies.

but all demonstrations have rules so they do not become riots. and these people were *intentionally* breaking the rules in an act of Civil Disobedience because it will make headlines and draw attention to the cause. just like MLK *knew* that his protestors would be attacked with firehoses and dogs -- it's such imagery that can move hearts in minds.

HipHop -- you're very smart. i agree that free speech is under attack. i agree that there is a corporate stranglehold on the media, as well as the bullshit charge of "liberal!" but, please, don't be a silly leftist who is reflexively anti-American at anything and everything.
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Old 09-28-2005, 01:10 PM   #3
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The only thing that bothers me about these demonstrations is the intentional drain on police resources. I'm sure they could be doing better things than carrying Cindy Sheehan out as part of her photo op.
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Old 09-28-2005, 01:24 PM   #4
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I´m not Irvine.

I just wonder A LOT because while the KKK and some NeoNazis are allowed to walk around freely, and they are always defended (!!! how sweet of all you "free" people, haha) with that argument; whereas those who critisize the administations policies, are not allowed.

Leave the whole media proliferation argument out of this. Those arrests make the front page of our most popular (shitty) Austrian newspaper, 1.3 millions of people read it, man, thats all there is to say to it. Sure they make the meida, and it´s their right to do so.

As to America:

I just expressed my sentiments. would, really, seriously, be afraid to live in the U.S.A. It is not an attractive country, that´s all there is to say about it, let´s do us a favor and not go into the details about crime rates, no insurance, student loans, bad education system, total failure of authorities on all levels when you need them, and about half of the people being overweight and dying of heart attack in a couple of years eating the same old McDonalds shit.

Your country should be your partner, not your enemy. Would you like to have a partner that
.) has a John Wayne approach when you quarrel
.) doesn´t give a shit about you when you´re ill, your fucking problem
.) doesn´t want you to be educated
.) is unable to deal with it when an installation of the house breaks and its covered in water, and just waits a few days instead of calling the installation service
.) who is fat and might die of cancer in a couple of years, but forbids smokin
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Old 09-28-2005, 01:26 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
The only thing that bothers me about these demonstrations is the intentional drain on police resources. I'm sure they could be doing better things than carrying Cindy Sheehan out as part of her photo op.
That´s surprising. You always defended free speech on all levels, and here you got nothing to say. Interesting... very typical though
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Old 09-28-2005, 01:33 PM   #6
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as a little post scriptum:

"would make us less safe and make the world more dangerous"

Nice one.. means:
America is safe.
The world (the whole rest of the world, folks, yeah!) is dangerous.

Muahahahahaha

those guys in the White House are too funny
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Old 09-28-2005, 01:36 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars
very typical though
Save your petty shots for another forum.

I'll defend Cindy Sheehan's right to free speech. My only reservation was the externalities generated by her choice to break the law.
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Old 09-28-2005, 01:40 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars
I´m not Irvine.

I just wonder A LOT because while the KKK and some NeoNazis are allowed to walk around freely, and they are always defended (!!! how sweet of all you "free" people, haha) with that argument; whereas those who critisize the administations policies, are not allowed.

Leave the whole media proliferation argument out of this. Those arrests make the front page of our most popular (shitty) Austrian newspaper, 1.3 millions of people read it, man, thats all there is to say to it. Sure they make the meida, and it´s their right to do so.

As to America:

I just expressed my sentiments. would, really, seriously, be afraid to live in the U.S.A. It is not an attractive country, that´s all there is to say about it, let´s do us a favor and not go into the details about crime rates, no insurance, student loans, bad education system, total failure of authorities on all levels when you need them, and about half of the people being overweight and dying of heart attack in a couple of years eating the same old McDonalds shit.

Your country should be your partner, not your enemy. Would you like to have a partner that
.) has a John Wayne approach when you quarrel
.) doesn´t give a shit about you when you´re ill, your fucking problem
.) doesn´t want you to be educated
.) is unable to deal with it when an installation of the house breaks and its covered in water, and just waits a few days instead of calling the installation service
.) who is fat and might die of cancer in a couple of years, but forbids smokin





it's simply stupid to paint 300m people living in the most diverse and successful society in history with a single brush.

i am the first to admit that there are myriad problems in the US, but i've spent way more than enough time in Europe to know it's not some fantasy land, and please don't forget that virtually ALL of the social benefits you take for granted are a direct result of the fact that the US has taken care of virtually all of your military needs since the end of WW2.

fewer things irritate me more than your ultra-simplistic, euro-centric, essentially ignorant lables. the European media feeds into these distortions, and unthinking leftists (shall we call them Stalin apologists?) eat them up -- please, go through and replace the word "american" with the words "jew" "black" "woman" or "gay" and see how it reads to you.
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Old 09-28-2005, 01:42 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
I'll defend Cindy Sheehan's right to free speech. My only reservation was the externalities generated by her choice to break the law.


were MLK's demonstrations a waste of police resources?
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Old 09-28-2005, 01:46 PM   #10
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I wouldn't even begin to compare the two.
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Old 09-28-2005, 01:48 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
I wouldn't even begin to compare the two.


why not?

does someone and their movement have to rise up to an arbitrary standard in order to become an acceptable use of police resources?

do you think the majority of the country in 1960 held MLK in the same esteem that we do today? or was he just a troublemaker?
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Old 09-28-2005, 01:52 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Save your petty shots for another forum.
lol

you´re gettin´annoyed, sweetie?
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Old 09-28-2005, 02:14 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

it's simply stupid to paint 300m people living in the most diverse and successful society in history with a single brush.

i am the first to admit that there are myriad problems in the US, but i've spent way more than enough time in Europe to know it's not some fantasy land, and please don't forget that virtually ALL of the social benefits you take for granted are a direct result of the fact that the US has taken care of virtually all of your military needs since the end of WW2.

fewer things irritate me more than your ultra-simplistic, euro-centric, essentially ignorant lables. the European media feeds into these distortions, and unthinking leftists (shall we call them Stalin apologists?) eat them up -- please, go through and replace the word "american" with the words "jew" "black" "woman" or "gay" and see how it reads to you.
Irvine, as much as I respect your opinions, you´re just plain on the wrong track here.

"it's simply stupid to paint 300m people"
you should be intelligent enough to read my words in the context. Show me a single line where I talk 300m people. im talking about the political system and its repercussions and the way of life that emerges from that.

"in the most diverse and successful society in history"
how superficial. where do you get this idea that America is the most diverse and successful society?

"Europe to know it's not some fantasy land"
very true, we got löts of shits goin on here, but i prefer it a thousand times to living in the U.S.

"please don't forget that virtually ALL of the social benefits you take for granted are a direct result of the fact that the US has taken care of virtually all of your military needs since the end of WW2"

Wrong. The U.S. helped with the Marshall plan, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with our social benefits. You´re high trippin, man. Our social system (or what is left of it) works because of taxes we pay, not becaue of the NATO. Apart from that, my country never was in the NATO. Same for Switzerland. And still we had all those social benefits. Weird, huh?

also don´t forget that the successes, which (I agree) the U.S. did have, are built mainly on two things:
1) you got a whole continent for free, only thing your forefathers had to do was to kill a few Indians
2) you had lots of free working power in the form of slaves

"please, go through and replace the word "american" with the words "jew" "black" "woman" or "gay" and see how it reads to you"

If you tell me where to replace it please?
I have not used the terminus "AMERICANS" but the terminus "AMERICA". There is a difference. Replace America with any other country in the world where you see problems.

"fewer things irritate me more than your ultra-simplistic, euro-centric, essentially ignorant lables" thats a compliment, is it?
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Old 09-28-2005, 02:17 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




why not?

does someone and their movement have to rise up to an arbitrary standard in order to become an acceptable use of police resources?

do you think the majority of the country in 1960 held MLK in the same esteem that we do today? or was he just a troublemaker?
You´re right on this one.

MLKs movement wasn´t respected until long afterwards. most of the American white upper class disrespected the cause.

It is sooooo easy to give credit to things that have happened a long time ago and are glorified, and to close your eyes in the present time.
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Old 09-28-2005, 02:29 PM   #15
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Quote:
"it's simply stupid to paint 300m people"
you should be intelligent enough to read my words in the context. Show me a single line where I talk 300m people. im talking about the political system and its repercussions and the way of life that emerges from that.

firstly, in a democracy, the political system arises from the people. you'll admit that the political system is elastic, and its one guarantee is that it will look different in 10 years. you also toss out the usual cliches -- hamburgers -- and attach them to nothing.


Quote:
"in the most diverse and successful society in history"
how superficial. where do you get this idea that America is the most diverse and successful society?
diverse -- look at the ethnic make up of the US. we are only 75% caucasian, and that's falling fast. we have more people trying to immigrate into the US than all the rest of the countries of the world combined. as for success -- my standard, and you can obviously debate this, is the fact that we've amassed a 10 trillion dollar economy, have more Nobel Prize winners at the University of Chicago alone than in all of the UK, have easily the world's best university system, have put men on the moon, and pretty much dominate every field of human achievement from the Olympics to the Oscars.

now, this is not to say its an objectively *good* thing -- it is to say, though, by which standards of "success" can be measured the US is far and away the most successful country on earth.

soon it will be China. but for now, it's the US.

Quote:
"Europe to know it's not some fantasy land"
very true, we got löts of shits goin on here, but i prefer it a thousand times to living in the U.S.
fair enough. that's an opinon. i've lived in both and love both and hate both -- at the end of the day, i ultimately feel much more empowered to do what i want with my life in the US.

Quote:
"please don't forget that virtually ALL of the social benefits you take for granted are a direct result of the fact that the US has taken care of virtually all of your military needs since the end of WW2"

Wrong. The U.S. helped with the Marshall plan, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with our social benefits. You´re high trippin, man. Our social system (or what is left of it) works because of taxes we pay, not becaue of the NATO. Apart from that, my country never was in the NATO. Same for Switzerland. And still we had all those social benefits. Weird, huh?
well, tossing aside the Marshall Plan as just one thing is kind of like saying that the printing press was just another invention. but, anyway, what, pray tell, do you think stopped Soviet tanks from rolling into West Berlin? the countries of Europe, the UK aside, simply have not had a need to fund a military in a manner that would be adequate to defend their borders from a Soviet invasion. thus, because your safety is insured by the US, you are free to spend your much higher taxes on social benefits.

Quote:
also don´t forget that the successes, which (I agree) the U.S. did have, are built mainly on two things:
1) you got a whole continent for free, only thing your forefathers had to do was to kill a few Indians
2) you had lots of free working power in the form of slaves
wow. while i agree about the tragedy of slavery and the genocide of the native americans, you really should take an American history course. i don't even know where to begin. what a convenient way to understand history.

Quote:
If you tell me where to replace it please?
I have not used the terminus "AMERICANS" but the terminus "AMERICA". There is a difference. Replace America with any other country in the world where you see problems.
any other country in the world would be just as offended if i described it in the terms in which you used.

only difference is that because America is big and powerful and leaves a mighty footprint when it walks through the world, it appears as if lazy thinking and convenient understandings of history are acceptable to use.
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