So that´s America´s famous free speech, haha

[hiphop]

Very true. Hiphop, I agree with you on many issues but even I find your posts in this thread offensive.

Fine, then think two times before of starting a discussion with me. It might be a waste of time, you know.

Irvine can be as offensive with me, or a European country for that matter, as he or she wants. If you say that this

"don't be a silly leftist who is reflexively anti-American at anything and everything"

and this

"your ultra-simplistic, euro-centric, essentially ignorant lables.
and unthinking leftists (shall we call them Stalin apologists?) eat them up --"

is not offensive, I don´t know what is.

But you know, I´m not critisizing this. I like offensive posts, they make me think if they are grounded on good arguments (can´t see any in that case, however).

What I would like to know of you, joyfulgirl, so maybe sometime I can finally understad this - because I have wondered about that for a long, long, time: what exactly made you feel so very offended? Why is it a bad thing to bitch about your country, or another country? To despise its politicians and call them killers when they send people to war, for example?

maybe you weill tell me that it´s your sense of self-worth that´s feeling attacked when I utter offending statements about America? Even if it has nothing to do with Americans? I would seriously like to understand this at some point

but I fear I won´t, because for me values like nationalism or "love my country" barely exist. It´s just a country, just a construction.
In reality, it is God´s land, but there are borders that people drew in their incredible evilness of taking the right to "own" God´s country. All those blatant exclamations of the nations fortitudes don´t impress me at all. Its the people who do this, single people, not the country. That´s why the distinction between America and Americans is so important. When I critisize America, I am speaking of its construct as a nation, of its political and military powers, social policies etc. - I have no idea why people always equal themselves with their fucking nation.

But maybe you can explain it to me.

 

[hiphop]

Okay guys, really just cool it please. hiphop, I don't mean to single you out, but any chance you can tone it down a bit?

That also applies to everyone else... please keep it down.

Ant.

Sure Anthony, no problem.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

So this is what free speech in America is like!

must be what free speech in the uk is like too since i've been arrested on a protest before now.

 

[Irvine511]

Oh you poor hardworking man, I am so sorry I took some of your precious time. May I remind you it was your decision to reply to my post.

Your provocations, like "after all, if there's one thing Europeans know how to do" don´t work.

Please stay out of this thread, if you have nothing to contribute.

speaks volumes.

 

[Irvine511]

Well, maybe most of the Americans know nothing about europe.


*edit* Other countries

i know plenty about Europe.

i will say that, in my experience, Europeans *think* they know much more about the US than they actually do.

at least most Americans are aware that they're ignorant and don't walk around thinking they understand a culture of 300m people after visiting New York and Florida and watching the news.

 

[hiphop]

Re: Re: So that´s America´s famous free speech, haha

must be what free speech in the uk is like too since i've been arrested on a protest before now.

True, but the UK is not boasting about its primary value free speech every single moment. Plus, in Europe you can also get arrested for wearing a Nazi flag.

You know, when Christofascists burn books, certain Americans will defend it with the argument free speech. Same for the above mentioned KKK.

But when people approach a military base, they will get arrested. When they protest against war in front of the White House on a larger scale like now, they will get arrested eventually.

You may be innocent enough to imply this is all various different cases and it depends on the situation etc. Reality is different. You can find any reason to arrest people and end a demo. Meaning, burning books is all nice and all, since it doesn´t support or condemn the government´s policies. But when it´s against war, my oh my! Then lets be quick to SHOW you the real VALUE of free speech.

Get the point?







And just for the record, I have probably seen more of the United States, the people and the culture in between 1979 and 2004 than most Americans ever will see. I may also have read more books written by American authors than most Americans have. (You think Norman Mailer wasn´t offensive?)

 

[Irvine511]

Re: Re: Re: So that´s America´s famous free speech, haha

And just for the record, I have probably seen more of the United States, the people and the culture in between 1979 and 2004 than most Americans ever will see. I may also have read more books written by American authors than most Americans have. (You think Norman Mailer wasn´t offensive?)

but you haven't learned very much, have you?

travel can be broadening. it can also serve to harden your stereotypes when that's what you're seeking to do.

 

[hiphop]

Re: Re: Re: Re: So that´s America´s famous free speech, haha

but you haven't learned very much, have you?

travel can be broadening. it can also serve to harden your stereotypes when that's what you're seeking to do.

Go to work. You´re wasting your time. If you wish to continue this non-discussion, you can post your email here.

 

[Dreadsox]

lol

you´re gettin´annoyed, sweetie?

Trolling again......

Shocking.....

But I would expect no less.

 

[bonosloveslave]

Last warning y'all....

 

[VertigoGal]

In the US, you are free to demonstrate, however as was mentioned before there are rules in place to prevent riots. Regardless of who you are, and yes that includes groups like the KKK, you can state your mind as long as you act within the law (ie obtain a permit, do not incite riots/violence). How is that not freedom of speech?

Your examples in Italy as far as food...trust me, we are lectured on healthy eating from an early age. School lunches are not as healthy as they could be, but it is improving. But how far should the government go as far as telling people how to take care of their own bodies?

Those are only a few examples, but I find some liberals' views on freedoms and liberties to be extremely hypocritical at best.

To get back to the topic of Cindy Sheehan, was it not evident by the broad grin on her face as she was carried off by police that she intentionally broke the law in order to be arrested?

 

[Angela Harlem]

If the government were paying for your healthcare, they'd have a place in telling people to eat healthier. It seems that as it is up to you, the government can almost wipe it's hands of responsibility.

 

[financeguy]

Hiphop, it is incorrect to say that KKK members are 'allowed to walk around freely' in the United States, at least not if they are advocating race crime, many are monitored by law enforcement.


Europe - actually YOUR country - gave the world Nazism.

And your country also elected a racist as prime minister not that long ago.

Some things that are worth bearing in mind before engaging in bashing the 'perfidious Yanks'....

 

[The Disciple]

it's simply stupid to paint 300m people living in the most diverse and successful society in history with a single brush.

i am the first to admit that there are myriad problems in the US, but i've spent way more than enough time in Europe to know it's not some fantasy land, and please don't forget that virtually ALL of the social benefits you take for granted are a direct result of the fact that the US has taken care of virtually all of your military needs since the end of WW2.

fewer things irritate me more than your ultra-simplistic, euro-centric, essentially ignorant lables. the European media feeds into these distortions, and unthinking leftists (shall we call them Stalin apologists?) eat them up -- please, go through and replace the word "american" with the words "jew" "black" "woman" or "gay" and see how it reads to you.

There's a lot of truth in that statement...

 

[hiphop]

Hiphop, it is incorrect to say that KKK members are 'allowed to walk around freely' in the United States, at least not if they are advocating race crime, many are monitored by law enforcement.


Europe - actually YOUR country - gave the world Nazism.

And your country also elected a racist as prime minister not that long ago.

Some things that are worth bearing in mind before engaging in bashing the 'perfidious Yanks'....

I know, financeguy, and I agree.

Austria is an awful country full of fucking conservative retards. Our PM is is an ugly criminal with a shitface. Also a warmonger, by the way, he ordered 18 Eurofighters. When the current coalition went into office, the government had to go through a tunnel because the masses of demonstrators were damn angry.

You want some more details? The Socialists here are fucking racists. When police killed an African asylum seeker on the plane back to Africa, Loeschnak (Interior) didn´t step back. Which he should have done. This has happened round 5,6 years ago and I will never forgive that to the Socialists.

Oh yeah, my country also was full of Nazis.

Don´t forget we started WW I.

 

[foray]

Leave hiphop alone, he's good-looking!

Seriously though, hiphop you're not sounding very original and usually your posts are interesting, but I don't see any meat to this thread.

Even Americans acknowledge their country's pretty messed up (psychologically, among other things), but then again so's mine. I still love it. Wanna know what non-freedom of speech is, try living in my country but the amazing thing is, in places like these, including the middle east, the 'suppression' has led to some creative solutions from the people. Not that I'm advocating suppression, I just would like to look at the situation more optimistically, having lived in such conditions all my life.

foray

 

[hiphop]

Oh my goodness, I didnt mean to piss off every single person on FYM. Maybe my blood literally was a little too hot yesterday night.

btw Irvine511, our run-in was pretty amusing yesterday Hope you liked it too You must be a good company to get drunk with.

Which I would do now, if I was allowed.

 

[Irvine511]

Oh my goodness, I didnt mean to piss off every single person on FYM. Maybe my blood literally was a little too hot yesterday night.

btw Irvine511, our run-in was pretty amusing yesterday Hope you liked it too You must be a good company to get drunk with.

Which I would do now, if I was allowed.

it was amusing to a point, then it got way unproductive. mostly because it's *impossible* to tackle these issues on a message board.

these issues can only be solved, and the complexities of each country can only be fully understood, after many, many, many pints of beer.

perhaps one day.

truce?

 

[hiphop]

it was amusing to a point, then it got way unproductive. mostly because it's *impossible* to tackle these issues on a message board.

these issues can only be solved, and the complexities of each country can only be fully understood, after many, many, many pints of beer.

perhaps one day.

truce?

The first round is on me. *salutes*