So that´s America´s famous free speech, haha - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-28-2005, 02:32 PM   #16
Blue Crack Addict
 
joyfulgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 16,615
Local Time: 09:53 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
oh come on.

i was at that protest and support many of their goals, i think Iraq was a bad idea, and i loath the Bushies.
I believe the great Cornel West was one of the ones arrested. One of my favorite people.
__________________

__________________
joyfulgirl is offline  
Old 09-28-2005, 03:00 PM   #17
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Headache in a Suitcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Stateless
Posts: 56,420
Local Time: 11:53 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars
I´m not Irvine.

I just wonder A LOT because while the KKK and some NeoNazis are allowed to walk around freely, and they are always defended (!!! how sweet of all you "free" people, haha) with that argument; whereas those who critisize the administations policies, are not allowed.
i'm not sure about other states, but i know in new york they have some rule which makes large protests/demonstrations of people wearing masks illegal...

so whereas the KKK may still be allowed to gather, they're not allowed to hide their identity with a mask.

they tried to hold a rally on long island a few years back... a group from down south... the fucking pussies didn't want to protest without covering their faces, so it never happened.
__________________

__________________
Headache in a Suitcase is offline  
Old 09-28-2005, 03:15 PM   #18
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
hiphop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: in the jungle
Posts: 7,410
Local Time: 06:53 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511



firstly, in a democracy, the political system arises from the people. you'll admit that the political system is elastic, and its one guarantee is that it will look different in 10 years. you also toss out the usual cliches -- hamburgers -- and attach them to nothing.

diverse -- look at the ethnic make up of the US. we are only 75% caucasian, and that's falling fast. we have more people trying to immigrate into the US than all the rest of the countries of the world combined. as for success -- my standard, and you can obviously debate this, is the fact that we've amassed a 10 trillion dollar economy, have more Nobel Prize winners at the University of Chicago alone than in all of the UK, have easily the world's best university system, have put men on the moon, and pretty much dominate every field of human achievement from the Olympics to the Oscars.

now, this is not to say its an objectively *good* thing -- it is to say, though, by which standards of "success" can be measured the US is far and away the most successful country on earth.

soon it will be China. but for now, it's the US.



fair enough. that's an opinon. i've lived in both and love both and hate both -- at the end of the day, i ultimately feel much more empowered to do what i want with my life in the US.



well, tossing aside the Marshall Plan as just one thing is kind of like saying that the printing press was just another invention. but, anyway, what, pray tell, do you think stopped Soviet tanks from rolling into West Berlin? the countries of Europe, the UK aside, simply have not had a need to fund a military in a manner that would be adequate to defend their borders from a Soviet invasion. thus, because your safety is insured by the US, you are free to spend your much higher taxes on social benefits.



wow. while i agree about the tragedy of slavery and the genocide of the native americans, you really should take an American history course. i don't even know where to begin. what a convenient way to understand history.



any other country in the world would be just as offended if i described it in the terms in which you used.

only difference is that because America is big and powerful and leaves a mighty footprint when it walks through the world, it appears as if lazy thinking and convenient understandings of history are acceptable to use.
1) sure the pol. system arises from the people. I was stating this to make it clear to you that I was not badmouthing Americans as persons, but critisizing the above discussed.

2) as to the hamburgers: not that it dusturbs me, you know. Everyone shall eat what he wants and live as healthy or unhealthy as he wants. I just think its ugly. That´s just a personal opinion. crucify me for it, but have no clue why it would be that impotant to defend your position. It is a fact that extremely many U.S. citizens are fat. It´s also a fact that this is very unhealthy. It´s also a fact that millions die every year of diseases related to bad food and too much fat. And what is done against it, on local or federal level? if I was a political repres. i would lobby for minimum health (cholestrine etc.) standards in food, especailly when the citizens I represent are living so unhealthy, it is just in the interest of the country. take Italy for exaple. In primary school, the kids learn how to eat right! They will have a small plate of pasta, a small piece of meat, some vegetables and some fruit every single day from Monday to Friday. That´s only for the italians though, who place such extra-importance on the food of their kids. Most other EU countries dont do that.

3) diverse, in society and culturally: look at India. As to diversity of ethnic groups: look at Africa.
Successful in means of economy and wasting of resources: true, but you will agree that happens on the cost of the poor, 50 million people dying of hunger every year (same blame on Europe, btw)

America can´t be number one on all accounts, Irvine, because the modern America has a history of just 300 years, in compare to the 2000+ years in Europe and a couple more thousands in India or China. The term "most diverse and successful society in history" is plain superficial.

4) Agreed, your uni system is very good. Congrats to the Nobel prizers too. Many of your musicians are great. ok, the Oscars don´t really count, after all thats Hollywood for Hollywood. The former USSR put men on the moon as well - and remember, Sputnik was first

However, success can also be measured on being in peace with the rest of the world, being internationally respected.. lets measure it on the number of invasions into foreign countries since WW II, shall we?

5) as to the whole Soviet invasion scenario your strategists were busy to paint on our walls: we never had as much fear of the commies as you. We remember that it was also the Soviets who liberated us. They lost 20 millions of soldiers stopping Hitler.

Sure, I agree, who would like to live under their regime? Me surely not. We wouldn´t have enjoyed so many freedoms, be it politically, economically, etc.

But you know, thats all the past pretty much. Its been over for a decade, and what you say is wrong: our safety is not insured by the US (and never was, concerning the neutral European countries). The contrary is the case. The US starts a war and fucking suicide bombers appear all over Europe and kill hundreds of people. So please don´t even try to imply that YOU, of all countries, are providing our safety. You´re unable to save your own country, how should you be able to do that in Europe?

"only difference is that because America is big and powerful and leaves a mighty footprint when it walks through the world" well, yes, the size of the footprint makes a difference you know. I wouldn´t bother to write a paragraph about the Easter Islands. Stop this whole victimizing of America. It makes the image of your country even worse than it is already.


as to offending you and a couple of other American citizens (note the difference between "America" and American´s citizens, pls!), well, you can´t be topped with your french frogs and freedom fries, you know.
__________________
hiphop is offline  
Old 09-28-2005, 03:16 PM   #19
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
hiphop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: in the jungle
Posts: 7,410
Local Time: 06:53 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase


i'm not sure about other states, but i know in new york they have some rule which makes large protests/demonstrations of people wearing masks illegal...

so whereas the KKK may still be allowed to gather, they're not allowed to hide their identity with a mask.

they tried to hold a rally on long island a few years back... a group from down south... the fucking pussies didn't want to protest without covering their faces, so it never happened.
That´s the very first positive thing I hear about this issue.

Thank you.
__________________
hiphop is offline  
Old 09-28-2005, 03:22 PM   #20
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,492
Local Time: 11:53 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars
3) diverse, in society and culturally: look at India. As to diversity of ethnic groups: look at Africa. .


Africa is not a country.

i can't even bother with the rest.

you need your scapegoats, so i'll let you have them.

after all, if there's one thing Europeans know how to do, it's scapegoat.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 09-28-2005, 03:27 PM   #21
ONE
love, blood, life
 
U2Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: at pavel's
Posts: 11,603
Local Time: 05:53 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

after all, if there's one thing Europeans know how to do, it's scapegoat.
__________________
U2Man is offline  
Old 09-28-2005, 03:34 PM   #22
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
hiphop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: in the jungle
Posts: 7,410
Local Time: 06:53 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

Africa is not a country.

i can't even bother with the rest.

you need your scapegoats, so i'll let you have them.

after all, if there's one thing Europeans know how to do, it's scapegoat.
True, true, Africa is not a country, and so what.

I think either you´re just tired of the discussion and too lazy to answer, or you are running out of arguments.

Too bad you need to blame that on your discussion partner. But I´ll let you have this easy way out.
__________________
hiphop is offline  
Old 09-28-2005, 03:40 PM   #23
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,492
Local Time: 11:53 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars


True, true, Africa is not a country, and so what.

I think either you´re just tired of the discussion and too lazy to answer, or you are running out of arguments.

Too bad you need to blame that on your discussion partner. But I´ll let you have this easy way out.


we're not even having a discussion.

you're tossing out every cliche and stereotype and lazy reading of history imaginable. it would take more time than i have to comb through your posts and point out your various inaccuracies, distortions, and misconceptions. it's both that i don't have the time, and it's simply not worth my time. you know, as an American, i work 50 hours a week.

i will also point out that you never hear an American in FYM speaking as disparagingly about another country as you do.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 09-28-2005, 03:51 PM   #24
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
hiphop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: in the jungle
Posts: 7,410
Local Time: 06:53 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

it's both that i don't have the time, and it's simply not worth my time. you know, as an American, i work 50 hours a week.
Oh you poor hardworking man, I am so sorry I took some of your precious time. May I remind you it was your decision to reply to my post.

Your provocations, like "after all, if there's one thing Europeans know how to do" don´t work.

Please stay out of this thread, if you have nothing to contribute.
__________________
hiphop is offline  
Old 09-28-2005, 03:53 PM   #25
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,684
Local Time: 10:53 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
I wouldn't even begin to compare the two.
Many felt the same about MLK's protest in the day as well. Just because you don't believe in the cause doesn't mean they aren't comparable.
__________________
BVS is offline  
Old 09-28-2005, 03:58 PM   #26
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,684
Local Time: 10:53 PM
Quote:
The group arrested yesterday was led by a coalition of religious leaders. They were joined by anarchists, military families, Iraq war veterans and political activists of various stripes.
I like to see unity.





Question, I've never been arrested, so which misdemeanors warrant arrest, and do all arrests require fingerprinting?
__________________
BVS is offline  
Old 09-28-2005, 04:00 PM   #27
Blue Crack Addict
 
joyfulgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 16,615
Local Time: 09:53 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

i will also point out that you never hear an American in FYM speaking as disparagingly about another country as you do.
Very true. Hiphop, I agree with you on many issues but even I find your posts in this thread offensive.
__________________
joyfulgirl is offline  
Old 09-28-2005, 04:06 PM   #28
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Rono's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: the Netherlands
Posts: 6,163
Local Time: 05:53 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511






i will also point out that you never hear an American in FYM speaking as disparagingly about another country as you do.
Well, maybe most of the Americans know nothing about europe.


*edit* Other countries
__________________
Rono is offline  
Old 09-28-2005, 04:13 PM   #29
Refugee
 
Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1,538
Local Time: 04:53 AM
Okay guys, really just cool it please. hiphop, I don't mean to single you out, but any chance you can tone it down a bit?

That also applies to everyone else... please keep it down.

Ant.
__________________
Razors pain you; Rivers are damp;
Acids stain you; And drugs cause cramp.
Guns aren't lawful; Nooses give;
Gas smells awful; You might as well live.

Dorothy Parker, 'Resumé'
Anthony is offline  
Old 09-28-2005, 04:21 PM   #30
ONE
love, blood, life
 
FizzingWhizzbees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: the choirgirl hotel
Posts: 12,614
Local Time: 04:53 AM
it would be lovely if all participants in this thread could take a deep breath or two and try to leave out some of the more extreme generalisations about other land masses be they countries or continents.

and hiphop, posting a "fuck off" smiley is no more acceptable than directing the words "fuck off" at another poster. you know the rules - no personal attacks.
__________________

__________________
FizzingWhizzbees is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com