So tell me...are they really so different?

[indra]

OK, I've been reading several of the religion threads and although interesting, it is also a bit amazing to me, because it seems that so many divisions in Christianity (the vast majority of religious postings here concern some form of Christianity) are just splitting hairs.

Now I pick and choose from a wide variety of belief systems to find what works for me, but I wondered about the basic precepts of major world religions and how much they differ. So I go on a little hunt and what do I find...well, I don't really see a huge difference in many of the major ones. Certainly the details differ, and they differ enough to be more attractive to one group than another, but are they really that different? Are the differences worth even arguing about, let alone killing and dying for? Is Christianity so much different than Hinduism in the end? So what do you think?

I found this brief description a dozen of the world's major religions here just as a basic (and very brief) reference.

 

[Luthien Black]

What really fascinates me is that there can be so much tension, strife and warfare between three major religions (Christianity, Judaism & Islam) when they all worship the same god!

I also find it somewhat bizarre that religion was created as a good thing - people could use it to explain things they didn't understand, and as a kind of reassurance - and yet people can use it as an excuse for doing such awful things. I think that's a real pity, because for so many people religion is such a wonderful thing, yet there are those out there who abuse it and ruin it.

By the way, I am not the slightest bit religious. I wasn't brought up in a religious household, so i find it difficult to believe in. I class myself as an agnostic, though, as who am I to say whether or not there is some greater being out there. I'm happy either way - if there is a god/goddess or whatever, that's really amazing, and if there's not, well I find it kinda romantic to think that we're here to fend for ourselves, and that it's only chance that got us here. In a way, that really inspires me to make the most of my life!

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

I also find it somewhat bizarre that religion was created as a good thing - people could use it to explain things they didn't understand, and as a kind of reassurance - and yet people can use it as an excuse for doing such awful things. I think that's a real pity, because for so many people religion is such a wonderful thing, yet there are those out there who abuse it and ruin it.

.

I've never understood the tension between religions, either. Why can't people just leave others alone and let them believe whatever makes them happy? Nothing wrong whatsoever with discussion about the religions and asking questions about what you don't understand-after all, by doing that, there won't be so much ignorance spouted about various religions.

But killing each other over religious differences? Why? What good exactly do people think that will do?

Originally posted by Luthien Black
I'm happy either way - if there is a god/goddess or whatever, that's really amazing, and if there's not, well I find it kinda romantic to think that we're here to fend for ourselves, and that it's only chance that got us here. In a way, that really inspires me to make the most of my life!

That's an interesting way of looking at it. .

Angela

 

[verte76]

Killing over religious differences is, in my book, a humongous sin. Killing over any differences is a sin. People are never going to be the same. You're always going to have differing religious views, differing political views, all sorts of differences, and to me that's what makes life interesting. It'd be boring as hell if we were all alike. We wouldn't need democracy if we were all alike. We'd do just fine in a police state. Now that's scary. There'd be no history books. I sure would hate that.

 

[nbcrusader]

What really fascinates me is that there can be so much tension, strife and warfare between three major religions (Christianity, Judaism & Islam) when they all worship the same god!

They do not.

 

[AcrobatMan]

i classify people as

1) religious fanatics
2) extremely religious
3) religious
4) mildly religious
5) non-religious ( + religious only by birth)

its NOT by chances by 90% ( or so ) people of some religions fall in category 1) & 2) and and 90% of another fall in category 4) & 5).

so in that way there is a difference between all religions. if you sample people and try to classify them in these 5 categories, you will get different results for different religions.

i think more than religion, ethics and ideals should be important. one should help for the society, the humanity , (strictly SECULAR HELP ) without the implicit or explicit intention or HIDDEN agenda.

showing kindness to animals and plants is also important... but there are times when you cant avoid it ( for example when you step on a insect and the bugs get crushed)

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

They do not.

So there's more than one god? Or followers of at least one of Islam, Judaism and Christianity, are worshipping a god who doesn't exist?

 

[AcrobatMan]

Killing over religious

have you ever wondered why people kill over religious difference.

why dont people kill each other because they wear dress of different color

 

[AcrobatMan]

So there's more than one god? [/QUOTE]


hi fizz

Why do you assume that there is 1 or more God/s ?

Any good reason for it

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

i classify people as

1) religious fanatics
2) extremely religious
3) religious
4) mildly religious
5) non-religious ( + religious only by birth)

its NOT by chances by 90% ( or so ) people of some religions fall in category 1) & 2) and and 90% of another fall in category 4) & 5).

so in that way there is a difference between all religions. if you sample people and try to classify them in these 5 categories, you will get different results for different religions.

That's...interesting. I guess my first question would be what sort of criteria are you using to place people in those categories? However, I think the real problem with your argument is that if you applied that test to different countries or at different times in history, you'd find as much variation as you would if you applied the test to different religions.

Take the UK and US for example, both countries have Christianity as the largest religion and yet few would disagree with the generalization that US citizens are more religious than UK citizens. Another example: compare attitudes to religion in France in the 17th century with attitudes to religion in contemporary France. Christianity was the predominant religion both in the 17th century and today, but attitudes to religion have changed greatly in the last three centuries.

You do have some interesting points, but I think you ignore the fact that many factors influence how religious people are, it's not simply a matter of which religion they practice.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

hi fizz

Why do you assume that there is 1 or more God/s ?

Any good reason for it

I actually don't assume that, I was just asking nbc to elaborate on his statement. Personally, I don't know if there's one god, many gods or no god at all. I find it hard to believe there is one "true" religion and all others are false, but equally I find it hard to reconcile the differences between religions to the extent that they could all be seen to be worshipping the same god. I actually don't have any firm beliefs on the subject, which is somewhat unusual for someone as opinionated as me.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Killing over religious differences is, in my book, a humongous sin. Killing over any differences is a sin. People are never going to be the same. You're always going to have differing religious views, differing political views, all sorts of differences, and to me that's what makes life interesting. It'd be boring as hell if we were all alike. We wouldn't need democracy if we were all alike. We'd do just fine in a police state. Now that's scary. There'd be no history books. I sure would hate that.

Agree wholeheartedly with this. .

Angela

 

[AcrobatMan]

That's...interesting. I guess my first question would be what sort of criteria are you using to place people in those categories? However, I think the real problem with your argument is that if you applied that test to different countries or at different times in history, you'd find as much variation as you would if you applied the test to different religions.

Take the UK and US for example, both countries have Christianity as the largest religion and yet few would disagree with the generalization that US citizens are more religious than UK citizens. Another example: compare attitudes to religion in France in the 17th century with attitudes to religion in contemporary France. Christianity was the predominant religion both in the 17th century and today, but attitudes to religion have changed greatly in the last three centuries.

You do have some interesting points, but I think you ignore the fact that many factors influence how religious people are, it's not simply a matter of which religion they practice.

Remember i had a discussion with you in "Goal is soul" forum when i had used numbers ( and probability).. i am just giving the general picture... the general trend... and you (like that time ) are giving me specific exceptions.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

Remember i had a discussion with you in "Goal is soul" forum when i had used numbers ( and probability).. i am just giving the general picture... the general trend... and you (like that time ) are giving me specific exceptions.

I do remember that discussion, and I'm still waiting for the statistical evidence that if you're good then good things happen to you and if you're bad then bad things happen. (If anyone's interested, this is the thread we're referring to: http://forum.interference.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=79887&pagenumber=2)

However, the whole point of my post was to emphasize that those general trends you speak of depend on more than just religion. General trends about religious belief vary between different societies and different times in history, not merely between different religions.

 

[nbcrusader]

So there's more than one god? Or followers of at least one of Islam, Judaism and Christianity, are worshipping a god who doesn't exist?

To avoid a lengthy theological discussion, it will suffice to say that Jesus Christ does not equal Allah.

From a Christian monotheistic standpoint, if you are not worshiping God (who is Jesus Christ), you are worshiping a god who does not exist.





*edited to correct gross mistatement as caught by Fizz *

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

To avoid a lengthy theological discussion, it will suffice to say that Jesus Christ does not equal Allah.

So, in your opinion, does that mean that people who worship Allah (presumably this is supposed to refer to Muslims, although "Allah" simply means "god" in Arabic) are worshipping a different god to Christians, or that they are worshipping a god who doesn't exist?

From a Christian monotheistic standpoint, if you are worshiping God (who is Jesus Christ), you are worshiping a god who does not exist.

That...doesn't make sense. Christians believe if you worship Jesus Christ, you're worshipping a God who doesn't exist? I'm honestly not trying to be awkward, but that doesn't make sense.

 

[AcrobatMan]

To avoid a lengthy theological discussion, it will suffice to say that Jesus Christ does not equal Allah.

I sort of agree on this one with NBC

 

[Liesje]

So, in your opinion, does that mean that people who worship Allah (presumably this is supposed to refer to Muslims, although "Allah" simply means "god" in Arabic) are worshipping a different god to Christians, or that they are worshipping a god who doesn't exist?

People who worship allah are worshipping a different god than Christians.

This thread sort of rubs me the wrong way, not b/c I don't like to be challenged, but I don't know how I feel about non-religious persons telling me what God I worship and that God is the same as allah, the Hindu gods, etc, etc, b/c He's NOT.

 

[AcrobatMan]

However, the whole point of my post was to emphasize that those general trends you speak of depend on more than just religion. General trends about religious belief vary between different societies and different times in history, not merely between different religions.

Fizz

Agree with this.

In the modern world, given all other things remain equal ( same temperature, pressure and rainfall ) , people belonging to some faiths are more religious than the others.

This is because all religions are different.

Email me at letdown_acrobat@yahoo.com for further discussions

Just off the topic, are you a guy or a girl

 

[AcrobatMan]

This thread sort of rubs me the wrong way, not b/c I don't like to be challenged, but I don't know how I feel about non-religious persons telling me what God I worship and that God is the same as allah, the Hindu gods, etc, etc, b/c He's NOT.

even many religious people make such statements...and i dont like it frankly.

 

[nbcrusader]

So, in your opinion, does that mean that people who worship Allah (presumably this is supposed to refer to Muslims, although "Allah" simply means "god" in Arabic) are worshipping a different god to Christians, or that they are worshipping a god who doesn't exist?



That...doesn't make sense. Christians believe if you worship Jesus Christ, you're worshipping a God who doesn't exist? I'm honestly not trying to be awkward, but that doesn't make sense.

I should have re-read that before sending. If you are not worshiping God (who is Jesus Christ), then you are worshiping a god who does not exist or who is a false god. (The bible recognizes that people worship gods who are not the One True God).

 

[Klaus]

I think Judaism, Christianity and Islam are verry verry close together

Christianity = Judaism + Jesus

Also todays Islam claims Jesus is just a prophet it dosn't look so if i read Mohammeds text Quran (4:171):
Free translated from german to english:
O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of Allah anything but truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was a Messenger of Allah. Do not say "three" for Allah is One God: Glory be to Him: far exalted is He above having a son. "

And to my point of view this sounds like christian trinity and mohammed is just another prophet of God and Jesus

 

[verte76]

have you ever wondered why people kill over religious difference.

why dont people kill each other because they wear dress of different color

That's a good question. Killing over religious or political differences sucks. Yes, it's important not to compromise your values and principles, but it's also important to respect differences. God created us all equal. I hate it when my fellow liberals slam conservatives for being conservative. I don't think they understand democracy. I like the ideas side of politics; I can't stand the hostility and personal stuff, and I see too much of this on both sides of the fence.

 

[nbcrusader]

have you ever wondered why people kill over religious difference.

The short answer - we are all sinners.

Same question is valid for every other reason people kill each other. Religion is no special or unusual driving force.

I'd say most killings labeled as "killing over religious difference" is more likely motivated by power, greed, money, etc.

Millions upon millions have been slaughtered by secular governments (mostly communist).

The sad part is we will keep killing until.......

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

I'd actually have to agree with that answer, nbcrusader. Power, money, greed, etc.-all that definitely plays a part, that's for sure. Quite sad.

That's a good question. Killing over religious or political differences sucks. Yes, it's important not to compromise your values and principles, but it's also important to respect differences. God created us all equal. I hate it when my fellow liberals slam conservatives for being conservative. I don't think they understand democracy. I like the ideas side of politics; I can't stand the hostility and personal stuff, and I see too much of this on both sides of the fence.

Agreed. There's many people I know who I don't agree with on a lot of issues, but they are completely entitled to think whatever they want, and I still hold the utmost respect for them, because they stick to their beliefs and give good, intelligent reasons for why they feel the way they do. I admire that in people.

Angela

 

[indra]

People who worship allah are worshipping a different god than Christians.

This thread sort of rubs me the wrong way, not b/c I don't like to be challenged, but I don't know how I feel about non-religious persons telling me what God I worship and that God is the same as allah, the Hindu gods, etc, etc, b/c He's NOT.

I'm not quite sure if you are referring to me or not, but I didn't mention god or gods at all, let alone tell anyone what to believe. I didn't meant this to be a "defend your religion" thread...what I'm interested in is why do people seem to focus on the differences instead of the similarities inherent in religions. I consider this a theoretical exercise...leave the baggage behind, step outside your own belief and really look objectively at various religions/belief systems.

What I asked was:

>>> Certainly the details differ, and they differ enough to be more attractive to one group than another, but are they really that different? Are the differences worth even arguing about, let alone killing and dying for? Is Christianity so much different than Hinduism in the end? <<<

Now what I meant by this is when you take away all the trappings of the religions, isn't the basic desire of all who follow each of them a sort of salvation?

But since god (s) was (were) mentioned...isn't it possible that if there is one (or many), he/she/it/they are/were able to morph into a form palatable to the many people's of this planet? Is it really that repugnant to consider that Allah really serves the same purpose as the Christian God, or the Hindu Brahman (by the way, Hinduism is a monotheistic religion). The various people's of this earth can't even agree on what is good food, how are they supposed to agree on a single god (or manner of worshipping)?

I'm actually not even saying that what god/gods anyone worships is/are wrong...quite the opposite. But isn't it possible that all of them are correct? That for the Muslim devote, Allah is the one true god; the Christian has his/her one true god; the Hindu has his/her one true god...etc, etc. I realize this goes against the teachings of almost all religions, but if there really is an all powerful god, wouldn't that god be able to present itself in forms to please the many inhabitants of the planet?

 

[AcrobatMan]

The short answer - we are all sinners.

i am not a sinner

its great to have people with diverse views

 

[Klaus]

AcrobatMan:
well you are a sinner, you are just unable to realize it

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

AcrobatMan:
well you are a sinner, you are just unable to realize it

And I thought false consciousness was just something Marxists talked about.

 

[AcrobatMan]

AcrobatMan:
well you are a sinner, you are just unable to realize it

how