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Old 08-05-2004, 09:14 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
There is no God.

Thats my opinion and I have a right to hold it, it is equally as valid as your opinion and I respect your right to believe what you want, as long as it doesn't hurt anybody.

I do not think that Allah is the same representation of a higher power as the Judeo-Christian God. As an Atheist I will respect others right to believe but when that "belief" is used to cause suffering then I will speak out against it. I think that most of the Islamic word, the centres of learning there are full of hatred, when a religion becomes a tool of destruction or a justification it becomes evil, just as the Spanish Inquisition and the Crusades before Islamofascism is an evil despotic ideology that uses religion to spread. Wahhabism and Deobandist schools of thought have produced individuals who desire to bring about an apocalypse, this must be stopped. Islamic thought must be brought out of the dark ages, they need a total reformation or we are all doomed Christian, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist, Atheist and Muslim alike because if they get their way nobody will be left standing at the end. There will be a global peace of the grave where the earth is purged of Infidels and pretty much everything else.

Basically there are good men and bad men, if we allow the will of bad men to control an entire religion then it is inevitable that the religion will become a tool to commit evil acts, if we stand up to the bad and support the good then things will only get better and the religion can become a tool to better mankind. There are hundreds of millions of Muslims no better or worse than you or I, but when they are left to suffer because we will not condemn the brutality that is condoned by their religion and commited by bad men because it is considered politically incorrect to criticize then nothing will change and things will only get worse. To me Islam is equally as invalid and devisive as Christianity or Judaism, I dont mind people being devout and worshipping but when heads literally start to roll all over the world and there is one common factor then serious questions about the interperatation of said religion must be raised or else it will just continue and be ignored under the triumphant banner of political correctness.

I have no problem with Muslims or people worshipping, let me make this quite clear before you lampoon me as an Islamophobe or Racist. I dont have any problem with mainstream religious expression within a secular society. I do however have a very serious problem with the wordview that is touted by the Islamists and is being accepted by more and more Muslims around the world, I think that the general statements made by the terror networks should make it perfectly clear why I see Islamism as a threat to peace and freedom throughout the world




These quotes are directed to the Wife of Paul Johnson who was killed by Terrorists in Saudi Arabia, it was supposedly written by the Wife of on of the Terrorists. Such hatred from a woman, the indocrination permeates the society and using the soft fuzzy gloves of political correctness will not do any good in dealing with this. See the world for what it really is, do you want to see another generation of young Muslims raised to loath the West because of who we are or do you want to see a more progressive element that encourages mutual respect and acknowlegement of each others right to hold seperate belief systems, I know where I stand, where do you?
I have to say I worry about some of the sentiments you express in your post. Islam is not a threat to peace and freedom throughout the world. People such as Osama bin Laden who are fundamentalists and use their religion as an excuse for their actions are a threat to peace and freedom throughout the world. The problem is that many Muslims live in countries where they suffer from poverty, and are often oppressed and recieve a narrow view of the world. They are virtually indoctrinated into hating Westerners. In countries such as Afghanistan often the only way poor people can give their sons an education is by sending them to Islamic schools. Unfortunately, there they are often indoctrinated with the same hatred of westerners.

However it is not the religion that needs to be modernised, as there are many many Muslims who live in the modern world and worship a modern religion. Also, Islam, just as with other religions, does not condone violence, however like all religions it can be twisted to support violence, just as the terrorists have done, and just as many other religions have had done to them in the past (for example Christianity during the Crusades). Islam is the excuse, not the reason.
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Old 08-05-2004, 10:59 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by Luthien Black


I have to say I worry about some of the sentiments you express in your post. Islam is not a threat to peace and freedom throughout the world. People such as Osama bin Laden who are fundamentalists and use their religion as an excuse for their actions are a threat to peace and freedom throughout the world. The problem is that many Muslims live in countries where they suffer from poverty, and are often oppressed and recieve a narrow view of the world. They are virtually indoctrinated into hating Westerners. In countries such as Afghanistan often the only way poor people can give their sons an education is by sending them to Islamic schools. Unfortunately, there they are often indoctrinated with the same hatred of westerners.

However it is not the religion that needs to be modernised, as there are many many Muslims who live in the modern world and worship a modern religion. Also, Islam, just as with other religions, does not condone violence, however like all religions it can be twisted to support violence, just as the terrorists have done, and just as many other religions have had done to them in the past (for example Christianity during the Crusades). Islam is the excuse, not the reason.
Exactly! Perfectly stated, LB.
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Old 08-08-2004, 02:59 AM   #48
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i read through the first two pages and then i got lazy, so if this was already brought up, i apologize in advance.

has anyone read life of pi by yann martel (and i'm sure some of you have)... isn't the backgroud idea of the story to show that religions really aren't terribly different? or did i miss something.

pi loved his religious experiences, all of them. he didn't choose one religion over the other. he practised hinduism, islam, and christianity. i think this is a wonderful thing to say, "i embrace all people of hinduism, christianity, and islam as brothers." okay he didn't say that, but he was conveying the message right?

my own religious beliefs are not as pi's were. i am a christian by faith, not by practice. i will not set foot in a place of worship. i will not attend any type of religious gathering. and this is coming from a person who followed blindly for many years. i feel suffocated, nervous and panicky whenever i step into a church (that's the only house of worship of anykind i've ever been too.)
but i believe that all religions in essence are the same.

we all need something to put our faith in. whether that be nothing at all or not. this one time at bible camp (hahaha), someone stated to the effect of: "you know, many religions seem to be pretty much the same at heart. what if god, or an ultimate being, just appears in different ways to different people. what if we all believe in the same god (or gods) and just interpret it different ways?"
mmm universalism, what a beautiful thing.

sorry if i wasted your time.

why did god make us so different if he wanted us to be the same? -saved!

peace, love & bad lemon,
toni

...is the acropolis crumbling?
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