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Old 12-05-2006, 03:35 PM   #91
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Not true.

Most conserative christian voters would vote for Joel Liberman who isn't a Republican or Christian, he's Jewish ( due to Liberman's values and stance on the issues) over say Rudy G a Republican.

Go refigure Mr Vest.

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Old 12-05-2006, 04:44 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally posted by Harry Vest
Doesn't stand a chance for President - most right wing christian republicans believe the Mormans to be a cult. They'd never vote for this guy no matter how "family based" his policies are.
I actually agree with this. Comparing Judaism and Christianity to Mormonism is like comparing apples and oranges to rocks.
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Old 12-05-2006, 05:11 PM   #93
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there's tolerence for ya folks.


back to the topic, i do think conservatives would put aside different religious differences and vote for mitt before a watered down republican.




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Old 12-05-2006, 05:21 PM   #94
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It's a fact issue, not a tolerance issue.

There's history behind the Jewish and Christian texts. There's little to none when it comes to Mormonism. There's no archeological evidence for the Book of Mormon. That's why the Smithsonian doesn't even recognize it.
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Old 12-05-2006, 05:28 PM   #95
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Well it got "nasty" only because apparently some people feel that FYM is below their intelligence level and want to insist that others feel and think a certain way apparently in an apparent effort to bolster that belief. If it's that bad I don't know why you'd (the general you or anyone who feels that way) bother coming here at all. I don't appreciate being talked to and treated in that way, and I'm not going to just let it slide.
And I now officially retract my apology.

If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.

Please note the wink....it was meant to be funny. If you care to continue this diatribe, I am available through PM. I will now contact Dave Letterman Jessie Jackson to appear on their shows to humble myself even more.
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Old 12-05-2006, 05:32 PM   #96
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Originally posted by anitram


Apart from that, he strikes me as incredibly fake.
And that is what has turned me off to the man. I feel that at a minimum, he has moved from being the person I voted for, to a candidate for President. When this transition occure, he moved towards the right on almost every issue I can think of. In particular the gay marriage issue and his educational policies have completely soured me on him.
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Old 12-05-2006, 05:34 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally posted by Harry Vest
Doesn't stand a chance for President - most right wing christian republicans believe the Mormans to be a cult. They'd never vote for this guy no matter how "family based" his policies are.
I think the right wing would go for him, as long as he espouses their beliefs politically.

He has a beeter chance than Rudy at getting their support.
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Old 12-05-2006, 07:35 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen
It's a fact issue, not a tolerance issue.

There's history behind the Jewish and Christian texts. There's little to none when it comes to Mormonism. There's no archeological evidence for the Book of Mormon. That's why the Smithsonian doesn't even recognize it.
Who said Mitt was going to have his constituents read the Book of Mormon?

I happen to view the Book of Mormon as a Christain text but that is not the issue and don't need archelogical to validate it's authenticity.

Quote:
I think the right wing would go for him, as long as he espouses their beliefs politically.
Quote:
He has a better chance than Rudy at getting their support.
Dread has it right here and he isn't even a Republican; but a very tolerant Christian whom I've come to know here and personally.

Lastly if you look at our standard beliefs posted below most would say that they interface well with most Christian beliefs:

The Articles of Faith
of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints



We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.


We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.


We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.


We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.


We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.


We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.


We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.


We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.


We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.


We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.


We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.


We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.


We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Joseph Smith

out,

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Old 12-05-2006, 08:14 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond


Who said Mitt was going to have his constituents read the Book of Mormon?

I happen to view the Book of Mormon as a Christain text but that is not the issue and don't need archelogical to validate it's authenticity.

I never said he was going to have people read the book of mormon. In fact, if he's the man for the job, so be it. His faith alone shouldn't be the reason to vote against him. I'm bringing this up because I was refering to the comment earlier about how the religious right (of which I'm not a part of), won't support Romney.

If the lack of archeological evidence for the book doesn't bother you, that's fine. I know it bothers people who hear Mormonism being called Christian, when it's not.


Quote:


Lastly if you look at our standard beliefs posted below most would say that they interface well with most Christian beliefs:
Although I'm sure you're a great guy and you sincerely believe your faith, this is not a true statement. Christian scholars and even regular religious scholars would agree with me on this.

Quote:

The Articles of Faith
of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
Yes, you do believe that, but you don't believe in the Trinity, which is essential Christian doctorine. You believe in them as separate beings, not three in one. Most cults don't believe in the Trinity.

Quote:

We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
We can't be saved by the laws and ordinances of the Gospel. There are no laws of the Gospel! We can't be saved by ANYTHING outside of God's grace through Christ's sacrifice and resurrection.

Quote:

We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Baptism is a public sign of your faith, it doesn't get you into heaven though. You can be forgiven without it. Also, all you have to do to receive the gifts of the Holy Spirit is accept Christ and ask for them. You don't have to have hands laid on you.

Quote:

We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
Of course you do, because the church's beliefs are constantly changing. Multiple wives are good. Multiple wives are bad. Black people are bad. Black people are good. Either this is all wrong, or God isn't the all-knowing, unchanging God that he claims to be.

Quote:

We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
If they’re both of God, how do you explain Galatians 1:9 “As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!”

Quote:

We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
This must be in the book of mormon, because it's not what the Bible says.

Quote:

We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
So people can create their own truth?


Listen, there are admirable things in the Mormon faith, but it doesn't align with Christianity's core beliefs. It's worth looking into.
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Old 12-05-2006, 08:20 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
I happen to view the Book of Mormon as a Christain text but that is not the issue and don't need archelogical to validate it's authenticity.
If there's any consolation, scholars have had a field day over the historicity of the Bible, but it hasn't stopped people from believing in it.

That's kind of why I chuckle about most organized religions these days. They each have their own "scholars" that point out all the flaws in "other" religions, while flat out dismissing the inconsistencies found in their own.
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Old 12-05-2006, 08:24 PM   #101
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Ormus, there's a big difference to the Bible leading to archeological finds and the book of Mormon failing to turn up any.

Also, some of the places and names mentioned in the book of Mormon are taken from the Bible, and the letters are switched. Wow. Sounds credible.
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Old 12-05-2006, 08:38 PM   #102
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Bono says...

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Old 12-05-2006, 08:45 PM   #103
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And I have no problem coexisting!

A difference of opinon isn't a bad thing. Heck, I have in-laws who are Mormon. I love them like anyone else and they love those of us in the family who disagree on them. They're family. Their beliefs don't negate who they are as people.

You can disagree and discuss differences and still coexist. I'm sure Bono would agree.
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Old 12-05-2006, 08:50 PM   #104
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Yeah serious! I'm tired of all the hate here. Why do people have to go out and bash another religion? Is there something about it that they find threatening or are they scared of it? Latter-day Saints are Christians and most all of them I know are extremely good people. Calling them a cult is just ridiculous. Arguing over doctrinal issues is just a way of spreading hate. When the mormons say they allow people the privilege to worship how where or what they may, they aren't saying you can make up your own beliefs to be saved, but they are saying they are tolerant and aren't going to tear people down, much like what is going on here. If you profess to be Christian, act like Christ and stop spending so much time tearing other people's faith or beliefs down. Peace out.
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Old 12-05-2006, 09:58 PM   #105
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Originally posted by runbyu1
Yeah serious! I'm tired of all the hate here. Why do people have to go out and bash another religion? Is there something about it that they find threatening or are they scared of it? Latter-day Saints are Christians and most all of them I know are extremely good people. Calling them a cult is just ridiculous. Arguing over doctrinal issues is just a way of spreading hate. When the mormons say they allow people the privilege to worship how where or what they may, they aren't saying you can make up your own beliefs to be saved, but they are saying they are tolerant and aren't going to tear people down, much like what is going on here. If you profess to be Christian, act like Christ and stop spending so much time tearing other people's faith or beliefs down. Peace out.

I don't hate Mormons. Did you read my posts where I said I have family who are Mormon and I love them dearly and get along with them very well? We had Mormon friends in our apartment complex that moved a few months ago whom we hated to see leave. There’s no hate here. Disagreeing isn't hate. If that's the case, than everyone in FYM hates each other. And you're right, many Mormons are very nice people. I totally agree with you there.

I'm not scared of Mormons or Mormonism, but I will stand up for truth. If how I’m saying things offends you, then you deserve an apology, which I offer up. However, if the facts I’m presenting offend you, that’s something different.
And I think you have your references to Christ a bit wrong. He did say "I am the way, the truth and the life. Nobody gets to the Father but by me." He's not tearing other faiths down, he's standing for truth.
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