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Old 10-21-2007, 08:55 PM   #406
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Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen


I think she may be kind of talking about the whole "prosperity gospel."


Since we're all U2 fans here, think Mirrorball Man.
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Old 10-21-2007, 08:56 PM   #407
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Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen


I think she may be kind of talking about the whole "prosperity gospel."
Bingo!!
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Old 10-21-2007, 09:03 PM   #408
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Originally posted by coemgen


Right on. The Bible preaches about the poor more than anything else. It's a shame that's not done enough.

where? some parts in the new testament?

Most people believe the first book in the Bible is Genesis.


and Christians, Jews and Muslims all believe God authored The Ten Commandments

Christians differ from the Muslims and Jews in that they think that same God later became a skin walker for some thirty odd human years.


Anyways, The Ten Commandments from everyones' God do not say anything about helping the poor.

It seems when God was writing down the Ten most important things on his "To Do" list for us humans - his main concern was for us to be obedient and not cause any problems for those that might want to govern over us.
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Old 10-21-2007, 09:04 PM   #409
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Originally posted by U2isthebest


Bingo!!
one way to get people to church
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Old 10-21-2007, 09:10 PM   #410
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep


there are many, many examples in the Bible

of God blessing individuals that follow his admonitions with prosperity

You're right! Through The Bible, God tells us first and foremost the deepest principles of how things really are. Anyone who follows them (and a lot of times people that have no "Christian" faith do this better than us) will simply have a better life all the way around, including financially, physically, emotionally, mentally, etc. Yet, this is vastly different than the prosperity gospel that I hear so many preachers talking about today that implies that a combination sending in money to a certain ministry, leading moral life according to modern church standards, and positive thinking will help one achieve their own heaven on earth. To try and explain it simply, This way of looking at Christian faith is "What can God do for me, rather than What can God do through me?"
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Old 10-21-2007, 09:11 PM   #411
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep


one way to get people to church
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Old 10-21-2007, 09:12 PM   #412
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Originally posted by U2isthebest
This way of looking at Christian faith is "What can God do for me, rather than What can God do through me?"
Well put.
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Old 10-21-2007, 09:16 PM   #413
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep



where? some parts in the new testament?

Most people believe the first book in the Bible is Genesis.


and Christians, Jews and Muslims all believe God authored The Ten Commandments

Christians differ from the Muslims and Jews in that they think that same God later became a skin walker for some thirty odd human years.


Anyways, The Ten Commandments from everyones' God do not say anything about helping the poor.

It seems when God was writing down the Ten most important things on his "To Do" list for us humans - his main concern was for us to be obedient and not cause any problems for those that might want to govern over us.
What exactly are you trying to say here?
If you're going to say the Bible is only about the Ten Commandments, I think that's quite a stretch.

I'm fully aware how Christians differ from Muslims and Jews, and that Genesis is the first book - what does that have to do with the poor?

There are many scriptures throughout the Old and New Testaments that pertain to caring for the poor.
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Old 10-21-2007, 09:47 PM   #414
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Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen


What exactly are you trying to say here?
If you're going to say the Bible is only about the Ten Commandments, I think that's quite a stretch.

Just shining a little light on what God wants.


The Bible has a lot of things in it.

A lot of it is terrible.


But if we are trying to project what God wants us to do?

What better source
-than the one time that all believers claim he wrote them down?
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Old 10-21-2007, 09:56 PM   #415
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Because we believe the rest of the Bible was inspired by him, too. To just go by the Ten Commandments would be to sell the Bible short. Any Bible historian would tell you that in a heartbeat.

Oh, and the OT doesn't mention the poor? Here's a sample:

Exodus 23:6 "Do not deny justice to your poor people in their lawsuits.”

Exodus 23:11 “but during the seventh year let the land lie unplowed and unused. Then the poor among your people may get food from it, and the wild animals may eat what they leave. Do the same with your vineyard and your olive grove.”

Leviticus 19:10 “Do not go over your vineyard a second time or pick up the grapes that have fallen. Leave them for the poor and the alien. I am the LORD your God.”

Deuteronomy 15:3-5 “You may require payment from a foreigner, but you must cancel any debt your brother owes you. However, there should be no poor among you, for in the land the LORD your God is giving you to possess as your inheritance, he will richly bless you, if only you fully obey the LORD your God and are careful to follow all these commands I am giving you today.”

Deuteronomy 15:7 “If there is a poor man among your brothers in any of the towns of the land that the LORD your God is giving you, do not be hardhearted or tightfisted toward your poor brother.”

Deuteronomy 15:10-11 “Give generously to him and do so without a grudging heart; then because of this the LORD your God will bless you in all your work and in everything you put your hand to. There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your brothers and toward the poor and needy in your land.”

Deuteronomy 24:13-15 “Return his cloak to him by sunset so that he may sleep in it. Then he will thank you, and it will be regarded as a righteous act in the sight of the LORD your God. Do not take advantage of a hired man who is poor and needy, whether he is a brother Israelite or an alien living in one of your towns. Pay him his wages each day before sunset, because he is poor and is counting on it. Otherwise he may cry to the LORD against you, and you will be guilty of sin.”

1 Samuel 2:8
“He raises the poor from the dust
and lifts the needy from the ash heap;
he seats them with princes
and has them inherit a throne of honor.
"For the foundations of the earth are the LORD's;
upon them he has set the world.”

Esther 9:22 “as the time when the Jews got relief from their enemies, and as the month when their sorrow was turned into joy and their mourning into a day of celebration. He wrote them to observe the days as days of feasting and joy and giving presents of food to one another and gifts to the poor.”

Job 20:10 “His children must make amends to the poor;
his own hands must give back his wealth.”

Psalm 14:6 “You evildoers frustrate the plans of the poor,
but the LORD is their refuge.”

Psalm 22:26 “The poor will eat and be satisfied;
they who seek the LORD will praise him—
may your hearts live forever!”

Psalm 34:6 “This poor man called, and the LORD heard him;
he saved him out of all his troubles.”

Psalm 35:10 “My whole being will exclaim,
"Who is like you, O LORD ?
You rescue the poor from those too strong for them,
the poor and needy from those who rob them."

Psalm 70:5 “Yet I am poor and needy;
come quickly to me, O God.
You are my help and my deliverer;
O LORD, do not delay.”

Psalm 82:3 “Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless;
maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed.”

Psalm 112:9 “He has scattered abroad his gifts to the poor,
his righteousness endures forever;
his horn [a] will be lifted high in honor.”

Psalm 140:12 “I know that the LORD secures justice for the poor
and upholds the cause of the needy.”

Proverbs 14:31 “He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker,
but whoever is kind to the needy honors God.”

Proverbs 19:17 “He who is kind to the poor lends to the LORD,
and he will reward him for what he has done.”

Proverbs 21:13 “If a man shuts his ears to the cry of the poor,
he too will cry out and not be answered.”

Proverbs 22:9 “A generous man will himself be blessed,
for he shares his food with the poor.”

Proverbs 28:27 “He who gives to the poor will lack nothing,
but he who closes his eyes to them receives many curses.”

Proverbs 29:7 “The righteous care about justice for the poor,
but the wicked have no such concern.”

Isaiah 25:4 “You have been a refuge for the poor,
a refuge for the needy in his distress,
a shelter from the storm
and a shade from the heat.
For the breath of the ruthless
is like a storm driving against a wall”

Isaiah 58:6-8
"Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen:
to loose the chains of injustice
and untie the cords of the yoke,
to set the oppressed free
and break every yoke?
“Is it not to share your food with the hungry
and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter—
when you see the naked, to clothe him,
and not to turn away from your own flesh and blood?
“ Then your light will break forth like the dawn,
and your healing will quickly appear;
then your righteousness [a] will go before you,
and the glory of the LORD will be your rear guard.”

Jeremiah 22:16 “He defended the cause of the poor and needy,
and so all went well.
Is that not what it means to know me?"
declares the LORD.”

Ezekiel 16:49 " 'Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.”

Amos 5:12 “For I know how many are your offenses
and how great your sins.
You oppress the righteous and take bribes
and you deprive the poor of justice in the courts.”


Just shining a little light on what God wants.
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Old 10-22-2007, 02:46 AM   #416
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
[

It seems when God was writing down the Ten most important things on his "To Do" list for us humans - his main concern was for us to be obedient and not cause any problems for those that might want to govern over us. [/B]
From the 10 Commandments you get this?
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Old 10-22-2007, 07:48 AM   #417
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Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen
Because we believe the rest of the Bible was inspired by him, too. To just go by the Ten Commandments would be to sell the Bible short. Any Bible historian would tell you that in a heartbeat.
I hate to mention the obvious, but I've learned that, most of the time, when deep is writing something "offensive," it's usually sarcastic in nature.

I highly doubt that he hates poor people.
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Old 10-22-2007, 01:10 PM   #418
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It certainly didn't sound like he was being sarcastic. I hope that's all he was after.
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Old 10-22-2007, 03:47 PM   #419
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More Christians jumping on board for Romney:

Inside Cover RSS

Evangelicals Rally to Romney to Stop Giuliani

Monday, October 22, 2007 10:28 AM
Evangelical leaders are urging followers to support Mitt Romney’s campaign for president to prevent Rudy Giuliani from gaining the Republican nomination.

One evangelical, pro-life activist and attorney James Bopp Jr., last week sent a letter to hundreds of social conservatives warning that they must unite behind Romney or risk a Giuliani victory.

“While several of the other candidates are certainly fine social conservatives, none has established his viability as a serious presidential contender – only Mitt Romney has the resources to compete with Rudy Giuliani for the nomination,” Bopp wrote.

“Other evangelical leaders have weighed in on the acceptability of the leading Republican candidates. [Focus on the Family founder] Dr. James Dobson, America’s most influential evangelical leader, has expressed his opinion that Rudy Giuliani, John McCain, and Fred Thompson are not acceptable, based on their positions on various important conservative issues.”

Bopp points out that Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council and Dr. Richard Land of the Southern Baptist Convention have also declared that Romney is an acceptable presidential choice for social conservatives.

“So it does come down to two things,” Bopp concludes in his letter, which was excerpted in The Atlantic.

“One, the viability of the candidate, which only Mitt Romney has demonstrated among the socially conservative candidates, and two, whether social conservatives will have the courage to rally around the only viable conservative alternative to Rudy Giuliani. A divided field means that Giuliani is likely to win the nomination.”

Influential evangelical public relations executive Mark DeMoss has expressed similar views regarding Romney and Giuliani.

In a letter to some 150 top conservative Christian leaders, DeMoss – whose clients include Rev. Franklin Graham – asked the leaders to “galvanize support around Mitt Romney, so Mr. Giuliani isn’t the unintended beneficiary of our divided support among several candidates.”

He said Giuliani “clearly does not share our values on so many issues.”

Dr. Bob Jones III, chancellor and former president of Bob Jones University in Greenville, S.C., has also come out in support of Romney.

“I just believe that this man has the credentials both personally and ideologically in terms of his view about what American government should be to best represent the rank and file of conservative Americans,” he said in a statement reported by the Greenville News.

“If it turns out to be Giuliani and Hillary, we’ve got two pro-choice candidates, and that would be a disaster.”

Romney, Jones added, “has, as far as I can tell, no scandal connected with his life. I can’t say that about all of the candidates, unfortunately.”

Commenting on the importance of Jones’ endorsement, Dr. Albert Mohler, president of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, said in an interview:

“This is like a lighthouse going on, the light shining its beam on Mitt Romney. Not only that, but the argument made by Bob Jones III basically means that not only is he supporting Mitt Romney, he’s basically saying he is the only option so far as he sees it on the Republican side.”

Evangelicals supporting Romney are evidently not troubled by his Mormon faith. DeMoss, for one, stated: “I am more concerned that a candidate shares my values than he shares my theology.”
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Old 10-22-2007, 03:50 PM   #420
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Quite frankly, if I had evangelicals on my side, I'd probably think I made a mistake somewhere.
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