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Old 12-08-2006, 02:17 PM   #151
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[q]"There's something to be said for having a Republican who supports civil rights in this broader context, including sexual orientation. When Ted Kennedy speaks on gay rights, he's seen as an extremist. When Mitt Romney speaks on gay rights he’s seen as a centrist and a moderate. It's a little like if Eugene McCarthy was arguing in favor of recognizing China, people would have called him a nut. But when Richard Nixon does it, it becomes reasonable. When Ted says it, it's extreme; when I say it, it's mainstream. I think the gay community needs more support from the Republican Party and I would be a voice in the Republican Party to foster anti-discrimination efforts.

The other thing I should say is that the gay community and the members of it that are friends of mine that I've talked to don't vote solely on the basis of gay rights issues. They're also very concerned about a $4 trillion national debt, a failing school system, a welfare system that’s out of whack and a criminal justice system that isn't working. I believe that while I would further the efforts Ted Kennedy has led, I would also lead the country in new and far more positive ways in taxing and spending, welfare reform, criminal justice and education. That's why I believe many gay and lesbian individuals will support my candidacy and do support my candidacy," -- Mitt Romney, 1994[/q]
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Old 12-08-2006, 03:26 PM   #152
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Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen
diamond, I have many friends of other faiths as well! Heck, I have Buddhist and Jewish friends in my myspace top friends list. And believe it or not, I'm in their top friends as well I totally love and appreciate people of other faiths. I have no problem with these people. Like Mormonism, there's great, kind people who follow these faiths. Heck, I'm sure you and I would get along great if we went out for dinner or something. I'll totally buy you dinner if I'm in your neighborhood. I just don't see how disagreeing equates to hate or intolerance -- especially when some of what I'm presenting isn't even my opinion, but fact. Are we all just supposed to give into each other and not stand for anything?
And as far as your faith being accepting of other faiths, I've honestly never heard that — even from Mormons and ex-Mormons I know. They were taught their church was the one true church, or their faith was the one true faith. Jesus said he's the only way, not me. I can't apologize for that statement, you know? And the verse from Galatians saying people shouldn't accept a Gospel other than that presented in the Bible, I didn't write that either. And think about it —*if all religions are true, than Christianity is true. Christianity tells us God sent his son to die in our place so his righteousness may be credited to us, therefore we can have forgiveness and be right with God. If God sent his son to die for this reason, but then accepted every other faith as a path to him, doesn't that kind of make his son's death pointless? I have to think if God came down here, walked among us and died one of the worst deaths imaginable, and then rose from the dead, that he would make it count. It would have a unique purpose. A God who dies in our place for our eternal benefit, but then accepts other ways to the same eternal benefit isn't a just God at all. Does that make sense?

And the long list of people you have there —*I appreciate their posts and perspectives, too. Many of them have taught me a lot. They're great people. With all due respect though, I don't see how you can list those names and then call me insecure?

And hey, if the Mormon faith brings you happiness, gives you answers to life and helps you love people more, that's great. I respect that. But there are serious differences between the Mormon faith and Christianity, yet Mormon's say they're Christian. Christians say they aren't. It's not splitting hairs over doctrinal issues, these are canyons of differences we're talking about. Don't you think that's worth discussing?
Thank You Coegman for telling me I'm not a christian
Chris·tian (krschn)
adj.
1. Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.
2. Relating to or derived from Jesus or Jesus's teachings.
3. Manifesting the qualities or spirit of Jesus; Christlike.
4. Relating to or characteristic of Christianity or its adherents.
5. Showing a loving concern for others; humane.
n.
1. One who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or follows the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.
2. One who lives according to the teachings of Jesus.

I don't know where you get your facts, but it's obvious all you look for is the negative in the Mormon church. Im not going to argue with you about your stance on the B of M, but if you really do research, you will find historical evidence of things that reveal it's authenticty.
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Old 12-08-2006, 04:41 PM   #153
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Quote:
Originally posted by macphisto23


Thank You Coegman for telling me I'm not a christian
Chris·tian (krschn)
adj.
1. Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.
2. Relating to or derived from Jesus or Jesus's teachings.
3. Manifesting the qualities or spirit of Jesus; Christlike.
4. Relating to or characteristic of Christianity or its adherents.
5. Showing a loving concern for others; humane.
n.
1. One who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or follows the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.
2. One who lives according to the teachings of Jesus.

I don't know where you get your facts, but it's obvious all you look for is the negative in the Mormon church. Im not going to argue with you about your stance on the B of M, but if you really do research, you will find historical evidence of things that reveal it's authenticty.
macphisto23-

i was just going to let it slide.

brother coegman has chosen to promote himself as fYM's very own resident anti-mormon.

that said in our faith-

we are commanded to love all of God's children as we are all brothers and sisters and think only good thoughts and pray for those who despitefully use us.

dbs
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Old 12-10-2006, 01:14 AM   #154
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In the Log Cabin Club letter, Romney also said he supported
President Clinton's "don't ask, don't tell" policy regarding gays serving in the armed forces, describing it as "the first in a number of steps that will ultimately lead to gays and lesbians being able to serve openly and honestly in our nation's military."

Tony Perkins, president of the conservative Family Research Council, said Romney's comments were "quite disturbing."

"This is going to create a lot of problems for Governor Romney," he told The New York Times in Saturday's editions. "He is going to have a hard time overcoming this."

Noted conservative Paul Weyrich told The Times, "Unless he comes out with an abject repudiation of this, I think it makes him out to be a hypocrite."

Romney was wrapping up a weeklong trip to Asia on Saturday and could not be reached for comment.

In an e-mailed statement, Romney spokesman Eric Fehrnstrom said as governor, Romney has never advocated changing the military's policy toward gays and has consistently supported traditional values.

Romney recently became a plaintiff in a lawsuit to force the state Legislature to vote on a constitutional amendment that would reverse the state's landmark 2003 court ruling legalizing gay marriage. State lawmakers have refused to vote on the amendment, which would kill it.

"As governor, Mitt Romney has been a champion of traditional marriage," Fehrnstrom said in his statement. "He's fought the efforts of activist judges who seek to redefine marriage, and he's testified before the U.S. Senate in support of the Federal Marriage Amendment. Governor Romney has been a leader in protecting marriage and in focusing this debate on the needs of children."

Arline Isaacson, co-chair of the Massachusetts Gay and Lesbian Political Caucus, said she cautioned gay and lesbians against believing Romney's overtures in 1994, and said conservatives shouldn't trust him, either.

"He can't be trusted," she said. "Because if it is politically expedient for him to swing to his right or swing to his left, he will do it."

won't make it
pass the first few primaries
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Old 12-10-2006, 09:04 AM   #155
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep



won't make it
pass the first few primaries
Now to me that proves he will say anything to get elected.
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Old 12-10-2006, 03:04 PM   #156
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Quote:
Originally posted by macphisto23


Thank You Coegman for telling me I'm not a christian
Chris·tian (krschn)
adj.
1. Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.
2. Relating to or derived from Jesus or Jesus's teachings.
3. Manifesting the qualities or spirit of Jesus; Christlike.
4. Relating to or characteristic of Christianity or its adherents.
5. Showing a loving concern for others; humane.
n.
1. One who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or follows the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.
2. One who lives according to the teachings of Jesus.

I don't know where you get your facts, but it's obvious all you look for is the negative in the Mormon church. Im not going to argue with you about your stance on the B of M, but if you really do research, you will find historical evidence of things that reveal it's authenticty.
This is all good and well, but they're two different faiths. First of all, you don't even recognize the Trinity -- that God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are all three ONE God. Yet, this is essential Chrstian doctorine. How do you reconcile that?

And how do you reconcile Galatians 1:9: "As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!"

Don't you think these are questions that need to be addressed?
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Old 12-10-2006, 03:12 PM   #157
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond


macphisto23-

i was just going to let it slide.

brother coegman has chosen to promote himself as fYM's very own resident anti-mormon.

that said in our faith-

we are commanded to love all of God's children as we are all brothers and sisters and think only good thoughts and pray for those who despitefully use us.

dbs
Promote myself? Is that how you're going to attack the facts? They didn't come from me -- don't you see that?

In my faith, I'm also commanded to love all of God's children as my brothers and sisters and think good thoughts and pray for them. Believe me, I'm doing that. The Bible also calls us to stand for truth and to not let people be led astray.

And is it love to let everyone believe lies because that's what they want to believe, or is it love to introduce the truth, even if it's offensive? The fact is that there are glaring differences between Christianity and Mormonism. You can't say they're the same. They're not. It's because of the fact that Mormonism has very different core beliefs that it's deemed a cult. It likes to call itself Christianity, but it's the difference between night and day once you look beneath the surface.
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Old 12-10-2006, 03:44 PM   #158
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Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen


This is all good and well, but they're two different faiths. First of all, you don't even recognize the Trinity -- that God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are all three ONE God. Yet, this is essential Chrstian doctorine. How do you reconcile that?

Yet a Muslim would find the concept of the Trinity to be sacreligious.

God is God.

And it is their duty within their faith to stand for truth and to not let people be led astray.
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Old 12-10-2006, 03:46 PM   #159
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I fully agree with you, Dreadsox.
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Old 12-10-2006, 03:48 PM   #160
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Originally posted by coemgen
I fully agree with you, Dreadsox.
Hehe

Is it possible that the good lord has enough grace to get through the whole trinity issue that we have here on earth?

I sincerely hope so.

I love grace.
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Old 12-10-2006, 03:55 PM   #161
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Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen


This is all good and well, but they're two different faiths. First of all, you don't even recognize the Trinity -- that God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are all three ONE God. Yet, this is essential Chrstian doctorine. How do you reconcile that?
Sorry, I dont understand your stance on the trinity, as it is a matter of interpretation of the bible, and it is irrelevant as to wether I am a christian or not.

But yes we do believe that the the Trinity is three distinct, separate beings. Jesus Christ is literally the Son of God and the Savior of the world. God is a material being, perfect and immortal. The Holy Ghost is a spirit and as such is able to influence people everywhere. The Godhead is ONE in purpose.

I can throw in many scriptures to support why we believe this, but I am not going to do that, I do not want to have a bible bash that will lead no where.
Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen



And how do you reconcile Galatians 1:9: "As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!"

Don't you think these are questions that need to be addressed?
One again I don't understand why this scripture is rellevant as to wether I am a christian (christ believer) or not?

I believe firmly in christ"s gospel, as do you. I respect your beliefs, as I wish you would respect mine. I don't want this to turn into scripture posting thread, as i have seen many of those here, and i know where it is headed.. no where
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Old 12-10-2006, 04:02 PM   #162
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Grace is a great thing, isn't it?

I don't know how he'll deal with such things. I'll leave that up to him. I do know that how Christians see the Trinity and how Mormons see it, is completely different. Christians believe in one God, three persons. Mormons believe in three totally separate beings. Three gods. Heck, they believe you and I can become gods, too. (Wouldn't that be nice!) Just consider the persons of the Trinity -- God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. They're relational. The Holy Spirit is God within us -- it points to the Son. Christ is God among us. (Which many of us will be celebrating in a few weeks.) Why did God come among us? To die in our spot, for our sins, and to rise from the dead to conquer death. This was done to be the way to God the Father. It's all just God though and how he's chosen to identify with us. This is all shown to us in the Bible.
So when I worship God in my day-to-day actions, and at church in a corporate manner, I'm worshipping one God. The Mormons don't see it this way. God is either one or the other, and we're relating to him very differently. Plus, to say Christ is just a god, verses the God, diminishes his sacrifice. (And, in fact, basically calls him a liar.)
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Old 12-10-2006, 04:10 PM   #163
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Quote:
Originally posted by macphisto23


Sorry, I dont understand your stance on the trinity, as it is a matter of interpretation of the bible, and it is irrelevant as to wether I am a christian or not.

But yes we do believe that the the Trinity is three distinct, separate beings. Jesus Christ is literally the Son of God and the Savior of the world. God is a material being, perfect and immortal. The Holy Ghost is a spirit and as such is able to influence people everywhere. The Godhead is ONE in purpose.

I can throw in many scriptures to support why we believe this, but I am not going to do that, I do not want to have a bible bash that will lead no where.

One again I don't understand why this scripture is rellevant as to wether I am a christian (christ believer) or not?

I believe firmly in christ"s gospel, as do you. I respect your beliefs, as I wish you would respect mine. I don't want this to turn into scripture posting thread, as i have seen many of those here, and i know where it is headed.. no where
I do respect you, I just disagree with you. What's so wrong about that? We're dealing with spiritual truths here and there's a lot of differences. Don't you think it's worth discussing?

I'd actually love to use the Scriptures in this discussion. I actually think it'd speed it up!
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Old 12-10-2006, 04:32 PM   #164
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Originally posted by coemgen
Grace is a great thing, isn't it?

I don't know how he'll deal with such things. I'll leave that up to him. I do know that how Christians see the Trinity and how Mormons see it, is completely different. Christians believe in one God, three persons. Mormons believe in three totally separate beings. Three gods. Heck, they believe you and I can become gods, too. (Wouldn't that be nice!) Just consider the persons of the Trinity -- God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. They're relational. The Holy Spirit is God within us -- it points to the Son. Christ is God among us. (Which many of us will be celebrating in a few weeks.) Why did God come among us? To die in our spot, for our sins, and to rise from the dead to conquer death. This was done to be the way to God the Father. It's all just God though and how he's chosen to identify with us. This is all shown to us in the Bible.
So when I worship God in my day-to-day actions, and at church in a corporate manner, I'm worshipping one God. The Mormons don't see it this way. God is either one or the other, and we're relating to him very differently. Plus, to say Christ is just a god, verses the God, diminishes his sacrifice. (And, in fact, basically calls him a liar.)
Very manipulating and arrogant post,

"diminishes his sacrifice. (And, in fact, basically calls him a liar.)"

I guess only for you

"Christians believe in one God, three persons. Mormons believe in three totally separate beings. Three gods. Heck, they believe you and I can become gods, too. (Wouldn't that be nice!)"

Understand our doctrine before you make fun of it.




I am still trying to figure out how we are not christians? I understand we believe in The Father, His Son, and The Holy Ghost as three seperate personages, but I am wondering how we are not christians because of this?
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Old 12-10-2006, 04:37 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen


I do respect you, I just disagree with you. What's so wrong about that? We're dealing with spiritual truths here and there's a lot of differences. Don't you think it's worth discussing?

I'd actually love to use the Scriptures in this discussion. I actually think it'd speed it up!
You don't respect our church or our beliefs, you are right and we are wrong.

You want to use scripture so we can just argue and interpret them the way we see them and mold them to our beliefs.

Speed what up?
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