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Old 12-26-2007, 07:18 PM   #391
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I agree with pretty much everything you have said Anitram.

Does that make the right to life crowd wrong on the abortion stance?

Or is it a shortcoming on how we deal with people in society?
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Old 12-26-2007, 07:19 PM   #392
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Originally posted by anitram
My greatest opposition to the pro-life movement as a whole is that they tend to behave as if life begins at conception and ends at birth. That is when these babies become a welfare problem, when we'll cut social programs and force single mothers to work 3 jobs because that's "uniquely American" (per President Bush), when we'll underfund inner city schools where most of these kids will inevitably end up, and then when they're teenagers we'll tell them all about abstinence while our pharmacists refuse to give out birth control and while the Catholic church crows about condoms.

There is a hell of a lot more concern about fetuses, zygotes and stem cells on a plastic plate than kids of mothers whose choice they're looking to take away.
I understand your point. I am all for birth control and birth control education in school. Speaking of that, I also think it is very important to teach personal finance in our schools.
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Old 12-26-2007, 07:19 PM   #393
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so... Mike Huckabee

Or is this abortion vs Ron Paul?
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Old 12-26-2007, 07:22 PM   #394
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
I agree with pretty much everything you have said Anitram.

Does that make the right to life crowd wrong on the abortion stance?

Or is it a shortcoming on how we deal with people in society?
To be honest, it makes me think they are wrong on the stance, because I don't think that they are so much acting in good faith on behalf of the fetus, as much as they are acting to control women and their sexual behaviour. When you no longer care about the child after it is born, when you legislate in a way to cut social programs from these children, when you don't care that we have hundreds of thousands of deadbeat fathers, when you are against sexual education and birth control, that makes me question your motives. And if I don't believe that they are really advocating for life, then I tend to conclude that their position is either faulty or entirely disingenuous.
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Old 12-26-2007, 07:23 PM   #395
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
so... Mike Huckabee

Or is this abortion vs Ron Paul?
Do you think Mike Huckabee's voice sounds like a cartoon dog's?

Hey, it's as good as question as any on this thread!
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Old 12-26-2007, 08:04 PM   #396
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Originally posted by anitram


To be honest, it makes me think they are wrong on the stance, because I don't think that they are so much acting in good faith on behalf of the fetus, as much as they are acting to control women and their sexual behaviour.
While there may be people who are just wanting to control women's sexual behavior, all pro-life people aren't like that. I personally don't think prostitution should be illegal because that truly is the women's body and her own right.
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Old 12-26-2007, 08:15 PM   #397
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I know you are going to ask me, who gets to decide these health reasons. It should be up to the doctor and the patient.
Then you don't think it should be legislated?


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Originally posted by Infinitum98
But besides that, I don't think partial birth abortion should be allowed for any other reason besides a medical reason.
I really should stop answering you until you can do some research. Can you find a case where it wasn't medically necessary?
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Old 12-26-2007, 08:17 PM   #398
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Back that up for me. Show me proof of a case that Ron Paul has seen in which he saw an abortion that WAS medically necessary.
I'm not the one who posted that little tidbit of information. It was Vincent Vega.

I personally don't give a rat's ass what Ron Paul thinks in medically necessary. He thinks I should be forced to carry a child to term. That's all that matters. Ask Romanians in the 1980s how that went.
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Old 12-26-2007, 08:20 PM   #399
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Maybe placing the burden of providing for the newborn life is too much. They should be terminated too if the mother feels it too burdonsome.
Wow. Haven't heard baby-killer in ages.
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Old 12-26-2007, 08:31 PM   #400
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Ultimately I find your position more distrespectful of life.
Of course I am! I'd rather see women get safe and legal abortions rather than bleed to death from the illegal ones. That makes me serenely not "pro-life"! Goodness, even I knew that.

Because we all know that the "pro-lifers" could give a flying fuck about those whores who just want an abortion because they had sex and they shouldn't have.
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Old 12-26-2007, 08:41 PM   #401
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Originally posted by martha
Then you don't think it should be legislated?


I really should stop answering you until you can do some research. Can you find a case where it wasn't medically necessary?
Okay it should be legislated like this: No partial birth abortion unless it is medically necessary. That means, no partial birth abortion allowed if a mother changes her mind about having a baby. Yes to partial birth abortion if carrying the baby is risky for the mother's health or life.

I don't know any cases where it was or wasn't medically necessary, i'm just saying that if someone wants to get an abortion just because they don't feel like carrying the baby anymore, that shouldn't be allowed.
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Old 12-26-2007, 08:45 PM   #402
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Originally posted by martha


I'm not the one who posted that little tidbit of information. It was Vincent Vega.

I personally don't give a rat's ass what Ron Paul thinks in medically necessary. He thinks I should be forced to carry a child to term. That's all that matters. Ask Romanians in the 1980s how that went.
No but you did say it was "bullshit" that Ron Paul has never seen a medically necessary abortion. I was simply asking you for detail on why you think that he has actually seen a case like that.
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Old 12-26-2007, 08:50 PM   #403
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The right of an innocent, unborn child to life is at the heart of the American ideals of liberty. My professional and legislative record demonstrates my strong commitment to this pro-life principle.

In 40 years of medical practice, I never once considered performing an abortion, nor did I ever find abortion necessary to save the life of a pregnant woman.

In Congress, I have authored legislation that seeks to define life as beginning at conception, HR 1094.

I am also the prime sponsor of HR 300, which would negate the effect of Roe v Wade by removing the ability of federal courts to interfere with state legislation to protect life. This is a practical, direct approach to ending federal court tyranny which threatens our constitutional republic and has caused the deaths of 45 million of the unborn.

I have also authored HR 1095, which prevents federal funds to be used for so-called “population control.”

Many talk about being pro-life. I have taken direct action to restore protection for the unborn.

As an OB/GYN doctor, I’ve delivered over 4,000 babies. That experience has made me an unshakable foe of abortion. Many of you may have read my book, Challenge To Liberty, which champions the idea that there cannot be liberty in a society unless the rights of all innocents are protected. Much can be understood about the civility of a society in observing its regard for the dignity of human life.
Source: http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/life-and-liberty/

So he has never seen a case where an abortion was medically necessary. German doctors, on the other hand, have considered about 2,200 cases to be medically necessary in 2006 according to the German statistical bureau, because only then an abortion after the twelth week is legal here.
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Old 12-26-2007, 08:51 PM   #404
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Originally posted by martha



Because we all know that the "pro-lifers" could give a flying fuck about those whores who just want an abortion because they had sex and they shouldn't have.
Yep, I wish my mother had aborted me.

The adoption sucked.
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Old 12-26-2007, 08:52 PM   #405
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Originally posted by martha


Wow. Haven't heard baby-killer in ages.
If you want to characterize your position as that.

If you aregument is that a fetus cannot survive without the mother...

My response is neither can a newborm baby....

yet it is murder if that baby is killed.

It is amazing the tactics you resort to in every thread when you are pushed.
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