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Old 12-25-2007, 09:12 AM   #361
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Huckabee's trying to force his religious views on everyone. That's not right.
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Old 12-25-2007, 01:04 PM   #362
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Quote:
Originally posted by Infinitum98


Some people believe that life begins at conception.
I believe a large portion of them really do not

they just say they believe this

they really want to control other peoples sexual activities
by making sexual relations have unnecessary consequences (potentially)
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Old 12-25-2007, 11:48 PM   #363
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I guess they just do.
Not good enough for me. If you want to make your beliefs law you need something to back it up...
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Old 12-26-2007, 01:58 AM   #364
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Not good enough for me. If you want to make your beliefs law you need something to back it up...
Oh no, i'm not saying for myself. I personally don't like abortion, especially partial birth abortion. And I have no opinion on life beginning at conception.
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Old 12-26-2007, 02:46 AM   #365
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Quote:
Originally posted by Infinitum98


Oh no, i'm not saying for myself. I personally don't like abortion, especially partial birth abortion.
Find one person who "likes" it. Just one. We'll wait.
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Old 12-26-2007, 12:12 PM   #366
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Quote:
Originally posted by martha


Find one person who "likes" it. Just one. We'll wait.
OKay, so even if people don't like it or like it, my point is that i'm against partial birth abortion.
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Old 12-26-2007, 12:25 PM   #367
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Quote:
Originally posted by martha


And some people don't.
Some people didn't think black people qualified as living beings either. Did we listen to them?
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Old 12-26-2007, 12:46 PM   #368
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Kind of an apples to oranges comparison, don't you think?
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Old 12-26-2007, 12:50 PM   #369
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Kind of an apples to oranges comparison, don't you think?
Not really. Martha and Infinitum were making their points based on prevalent perspectives/opinions of whether life exists as a basis for defining law. My point was that the whole "some people don't think a baby is/isn't alive in the womb" isn't really a sufficient basis for legislation on either side of the equation, since it's failed us in the past.
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Old 12-26-2007, 01:01 PM   #370
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My point was that the whole "some people don't think a baby is/isn't alive in the womb" isn't really a sufficient basis for legislation on either side of the equation, since it's failed us in the past.
But you compared a living breathing human being that can live on it's own to a developing fetus that if taken out of the womb can't live on it's own. To me they are not the same, to the majority of scientist they are not the same.

So the comparison was a faulty one. An opinion that a black person isn't a living being is based on hate, nothing else. The issue of when a fetus is a living child has nothing to do with that at all, not even close.
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Old 12-26-2007, 01:27 PM   #371
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Quote:
Originally posted by nathan1977
My point was that the whole "some people don't think a baby is/isn't alive in the womb" isn't really a sufficient basis for legislation on either side of the equation, since it's failed us in the past.
What a cop-out. Black Americans were living, breathing people just like white Americans.

If it makes you feel better about caring more for a zygote than the living breathing woman surrounding it, then have at it.

I really don't care all that much if anyone here is anti-choice or not. Just as long as you only enforce your opinions on your own body and not mine.
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Old 12-26-2007, 01:30 PM   #372
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Quote:
Originally posted by nathan1977


Some people didn't think black people qualified as living beings either. Did we listen to them?
Yes. People did all the time. Then people realized that living breathing people were more important than any misguided ideals they were clinging to. Someday the folks who think that the "liberties" of a fetus outweigh my liberties as a human will be just as reviled as the people who thought that black Americans weren't fully people.
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Old 12-26-2007, 01:31 PM   #373
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Quote:
Originally posted by Infinitum98
, my point is that i'm against partial birth abortion.
Be against it all you want. But please don't tell the women who need the procedure that somehow your opinions on their medical decisions matter more.
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Old 12-26-2007, 03:59 PM   #374
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Quote:
Originally posted by martha

Someday the folks who think that the "liberties" of a fetus outweigh my liberties as a human will be just as reviled as the people who thought that black Americans weren't fully people.
So would you be against abortion if there was no medical reason for a mother to have one?

I am confused because if there were no medical reason, why should the value people place on a fetus be any less.

I would support an abortion if the doctor determined there was a valid medical reason for the mother to have one. That is my value of the person over the fetus.

Why is it so wrong to value the fetus up to that point?
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Old 12-26-2007, 04:58 PM   #375
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
I would support an abortion if the doctor determined there was a valid medical reason for the mother to have one. That is my value of the person over the fetus.

It's a limited value, then. If you feel you have a right to determine what happens to the woman carrying the fetus just because she's now a vessel, then you value the fetus more than the living, breathing woman. Why do you get to make those decisions for a stranger? Why does she have to prove to you, or your representative (a doctor, a panel of strangers appointed by lawmakers) that the pregnancy will not be in her best interests? Why is it anybody's business but hers? Why is it your business?
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