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Old 12-20-2007, 12:41 AM   #286
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Originally posted by indra


All you have to do is make sure to only knock up an anti-abortion chick and you're all good for all the parenthood you could possibly want.
Have I ever told you how much I enjoy your posts.....
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Old 12-20-2007, 12:43 AM   #287
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Originally posted by Dreadsox


But there cannot be any middle ground. You will be labeled as a fence sitter.

It is black or white in FYM with no shades of grey.....
Concerning this issue, yes, it's pretty black-or-white around here.

And you're not wrong that certain opinions simply aren't tolerated around here...sometimes that issue just makes me want to say "fuck it" and not even bother, since I know I'll just be attacked for being in the FYM (which is roughly 98% liberal) minority. Still, there are a lot of great people in this section that are just very vocal and very serious about their opinions, which I can respect. It's what keeps me coming back.
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Old 12-20-2007, 12:44 AM   #288
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Originally posted by anitram


Well, good for you. I absolutely feel that on this topic, viewpoints do differ from the point of gender. Surely there are women at FYM who have had an abortion - I think their feelings will be different than mine as a woman who hasn't had one and different than a man's who will never have one.

I wasn't polling him in order to evaluate his opinion, I was merely curious. There are a number of times you've asked questions that I didn't think are necessary to extract a person's opinion - I just don't generally see what the value of pointing such a thing out would be. To each his own.
I actually consider you to be someone who seeks others opinions and values the input.

But, there are women who have had abortions and women who have not who feel equally passsionate that they are right or wrong.

Should we have a standard to value one opinion over another?
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Old 12-20-2007, 12:45 AM   #289
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Originally posted by LemonMelon


Concerning this issue, yes, it's pretty black-or-white around here.

And you're not wrong that certain opinions simply aren't tolerated around here...sometimes that issue just makes me want to say "fuck it" and not even bother, since I know I'll just be attacked for being in the FYM (which is roughly 98% liberal) minority. Still, there are a lot of great people in this section that are just very vocal and very serious about their opinions, which I can respect. It's what keeps me coming back.

I am not sure what keeps me coming back....LOL
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Old 12-20-2007, 12:46 AM   #290
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Originally posted by Dreadsox



I am not sure what keeps me coming back....LOL
You're drunk. You must have stumbled in here by accident.
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Old 12-20-2007, 12:47 AM   #291
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox

Should we have a standard to value one opinion over another?
No, but honestly I think you're almost arguing in theory here, because I don't see anyone here who stated that we should have a hierarchy of opinions. Maybe I haven't read all the abortion threads (mostly they make me want to gouge my eyes out), so it's possible it's popped up and I haven't seen it.

So I'm not really sure if you're just musing here or what. I just didn't like the assumption that was attached to my post - that I was implying like the opinion of a poster is somehow less valuable because of what he's got between his legs. It was an honest question and sometimes things are just as they seem. If you choose to read more into them, then that's really your issue and not the person's (I mean general "you" not you personally).
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Old 12-20-2007, 12:47 AM   #292
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Originally posted by LemonMelon


You're drunk. You must have stumbled in here by accident.
I am .... tis the season..... Three hours of sleep since Sunday....
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Old 12-20-2007, 12:51 AM   #293
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Originally posted by anitram


No, but honestly I think you're almost arguing in theory here, because I don't see anyone here who stated that we should have a hierarchy of opinions. Maybe I haven't read all the abortion threads (mostly they make me want to gouge my eyes out), so it's possible it's popped up and I haven't seen it.

Maybe I am ..... But I am not sure from the direction of the conversation in general (NOT YOUR POSTS) that there is a line of arguments that white males opinions are somehow devalued on this topic.
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Old 12-20-2007, 12:53 AM   #294
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram


No, but honestly I think you're almost arguing in theory here, because I don't see anyone here who stated that we should have a hierarchy of opinions. Maybe I haven't read all the abortion threads (mostly they make me want to gouge my eyes out), so it's possible it's popped up and I haven't seen it.
The hierarchy kicks in during the homosexual rights/marriage threads, mostly. (For the record, that is one issue I have very little opinion about, perhaps because it doesn't affect me at all, and perhaps because I haven't given much thought to the potential ramifications of it) I have literally heard the phrase "certain opinions aren't allowed" in that particular area. I'm not bitching about it or anything, but that's just what I observed.

Abortion isn't all that volatile of a subject here, but I've seen it be that nasty elsewhere. People really take it seriously.
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Old 12-20-2007, 01:39 AM   #295
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Quote:
Originally posted by LemonMelon
And you're not wrong that certain opinions simply aren't tolerated around here...sometimes that issue just makes me want to say "fuck it" and not even bother, since I know I'll just be attacked for being in the FYM (which is roughly 98% liberal) minority.
Frankly, sometimes I wish you would say "fuck it". I thought you were a pretty cool guy until I encountered your ridiculous posts here. Never would've guessed you were one of them, really. Now that's somewhat impacted how I think of you.

Though I would agree to a point that the abortion issue is often treated as too black-and-white by both sides on this forum. I'm a pacifist and strongly oppose any taking of human life, but when and where does life begin? I don't know. And I'm certainly not getting any answers from the debates here (or other Internet forums, as the vitriol is hardly limited to FYM). Accordingly, I'm at a bit of a loss for a stance on abortion. That said, I find myself siding with the pro-choice crowd as the anti-choicers have a nasty habit of disgusting me.
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Old 12-20-2007, 01:52 AM   #296
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Quote:
Originally posted by Axver


Frankly, sometimes I wish you would say "fuck it". I thought you were a pretty cool guy until I encountered your ridiculous posts here. Never would've guessed you were one of them, really. Now that's somewhat impacted how I think of you.
And the same goes for me, too, Ax. Many of my opinions of different posters here are slanted thanks to this forum. However, I can't let that happen to too great of a degree because I don't spend nearly enough time in this section and too much in the others to let some political differences get in the way of my U2-based discussions with the rest of you.

I now base my opinions of other posters here (specifically FYM) on the following criteria:

1. Their ability to coherently state their opinion using facts and some level of reason.

2. Their acceptance of other members' opinions.

It would be far too easy to call someone an idiot simply because they disagree with you.
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Old 12-20-2007, 06:48 AM   #297
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The only "opinions" I'm intolerant of are non-opinions (i.e.: blatant ignoring of facts) on issues such as gay rights.
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Old 12-20-2007, 10:04 AM   #298
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So I think Mike was mentioned once in the last 3 pages...
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Old 12-20-2007, 10:13 AM   #299
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So this is another abortion thread now?
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Old 12-20-2007, 10:36 AM   #300
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abcnews.com

Mike Huckabee Tells ABC News Why His Campaign is Working
By JAKE TAPPER

DES MOINES, Iowa Dec. 19, 2007 —

Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee has just landed in Des Moines and he's surveying the enormous plush black bus that will be taking him on a 15-city tour of the state.

It's decorated with a huge picture of him.

"It's strange," Huckabee says. "Kind of like riding in a bread truck and you're the bread."

Underneath his gigantic photograph it reads: "Mike Huckabee. Faith. Family. Freedom."

And faith is no small reason for Huckabee's success in the Hawkeye state, where he now holds a commanding lead among likely Republican caucus-goers, who will cast their votes in just two weeks.

A new ABC News/Washington Post poll shows former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney leading Huckabee narrowly among the 80 percent of caucus-goers who don't care about Romney's Mormon faith.

But among the 20 percent who say Romney's Mormonism makes them less likely to vote for him, Huckabee's lead is so overwhelming he now leads Romney overall by eight points, 35 percent to 27 percent.

Does it concern Huckabee that one of the reasons for his surge in the polls is what can be seen as intolerance of Mormonism?

"I don't know that it's intolerance," the Baptist minister tells ABC News.

Then he stops himself and makes the first point he wants to make: "First of all, I don't think whether a person's a Mormon or is Baptist or is Jewish, I don't think that has anything to do with whether they would be a good president."

Huckabee continues, "I think what people ought to look at is whether their record is consistent. How did they get where they are? Do they really truly represent that guy out there who says, when he's putting his family around the table at dinner, 'There's my president, I'm watching him on TV, he understands me. He understands what I'm dealing with. And he's going to make a decision based on how it's going to affect me, not how it's going to affect him.'"

Does it bother Huckabee that unwillingness to vote for a Mormon is one of the factors helping him?

"You know, it's not something that I agree with," Huckabee says. "But I agree with the final outcome. I just have to believe that there's still a reason that a lot of people are connecting with me and I don't think it's religion."

Romney today told reporters that "there will always be people who don't understand my faith terribly well, and people who will make a decision on the basis of familiarity with a faith."

But he said he believes "the great majority of Iowans will choose the nominee of our party based on their experience and their vision, and their leadership and are not going to make a decision based on what church they go to."

Romney adds: "There will always be exceptions to those things."

Tensions are high between Romney and Huckabee, with the former Massachusetts governor mentioning Huckabee at almost every campaign stop, calling him "liberal," and assailing his record on taxes, immigration, and crime.

"The dog doesn't bark at a parked car," Huckabee says. "So the reason that we're getting this is because people say, 'This guy's going to run away with the election if we don't stop him.' So what do they do to stop me? Distortions. Untruths. Desperate attacks."

Asked if he and Romney fighting might not create an opening for a third candidate, Huckabee smiled. "I don't plan to fight with him. He's throwing punches and I'm saying Merry Christmas."

Huckabee's "Merry Christmas" TV ad -- in which he invokes the name Christ possibly for the first time ever in a broadcast ad by a presidential candidate -- was viewed by some of his opponents as a blatant attempt to remind evangelical voters, who comprise nearly 40 percent of GOP caucus-goers, that he's one of them.

"I don't think we've ever had an election as close to Christmas," Huckabee explains. "We've all been struggling with, 'How do you campaign so close to Christmas?' And one thing we chose to do, we weren't going to fill people's mailboxes up with a bunch of poison mail. Because most people go to the mailbox and they want some nice comfortable Christmas cards that say, 'Peace on Earth, Goodwill towards Man,' not 'Here's a hammer, let's crack this fellow's kneecaps.' I mean, it's unbecoming."

"It was honestly an attempt to change the tone of the campaign," he says. "If I invoke the name Jesus Christ in profanity nobody would think a thing."

A previous Huckabee TV ad characterized him as a "Christian Leader," prompting Romney to say in Iowa on Dec. 14, "Gov. Huckabee, in running an ad that says Christian leader, is clearly calling attention to his faith and I don't know that that's been done before in recent American history where someone advertises their faith."

Huckabee says that nonreligious voters support him as well and suggests his success is because voters identify with him beyond faith.

But he clearly sees his success in terms of his cultural differences with Romney, a wealthy son of privilege supported by many in the Republican establishment, who has outspent every other Republican candidate.

"More Americans grew up like I did than grew up in a world where they were born on third base, got up, and thought they hit a triple," Huckabee says. "Life is a struggle for most Americans. And I think when I share my own personal pilgrimage to be here, people recognize, 'Hey that's me. That's me.'"

His success in the ABC News poll, Huckabee says in another reference to Romney, is "a testament to the people of Iowa who, despite the fact that we've been outspent 20-to-1, are rallying to our campaign. What an affirmation that the election process is still alive ... that the average American can have an effect and it's not just controlled by a handful of special people in the Wall Street-to-Washington axis."

"It's a good position to be in," he says as the "Huckabus" approaches a mall where reporters are packed like paparazzi awaiting a starlet. "Having been in the back of the pack for so long, there's a saying that only the lead dog gets a change of scenery. And it's kind of nice to see the scenery."
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