so long paul martin, so long canada, hello superfreaks

[Zoomerang96]

canada stands today as one of the best countries in the world in almost every important category.

we've progressed nicely as a country that's allowed citizens to express themselves, while also protecting our more conservative minded folk with right to a freedom of speech.

indeed, it would seem as though we've accomadated both sides of the political spectrum.

now a scandal breaks through, some words are said, and people are willing to dismiss what might be the best prime minister we've had in decades.

the alliance, the reform party, whatever you wanna call them are on the brink of power - and make no doubt about the course of action they'll take once they do.

backwards is the new forwards.

it's a red dawn in canada, it would seem. yes, i still have a flair for the dramatics...

anyway, i'm quite upset about this. as bad as the scandal is, so far no trails have led to any prominent minister or our pm. and don't tell me this sort of shit doesnt take place inside of every party in every country...

may the chaos end with a martin victory...of ma7ority proportions.

 

[melon]

Minority governments in Canada last an average of 18 months. An election is an inevitability, because, at the core, all four parties hate each other and the Liberals are sitting ducks, considering how long they have remained in power. The "sponsorship scandal" is the Canadian version of "Whitewater," except that it affects the entire party, rather than just Paul Martin. If the Liberals can delay the election until the autumn, they may be able to squeak through another election.

The Canadian Alliance...err..."Conservative Party" is pretty scary, but most of their power is still concentrated in the usual three provinces: Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba. They may be able to get Ontario to swing narrowly in their favor currently, looking at the poll numbers, and they certainly won't get Quebec, who will just swing more to the Bloc (although they really can't swing in that direction anymore than they currently have, really).

In short, the Conservatives may be able to squeeze into a minority government of their own, but I predict it would collapse even faster than a Liberal minority government, because if the Liberals can't get along with the NDP and the Bloc, the Conservatives certainly won't be able to.

And, of course, the inevitable salvo of hate that will seep out of the Alberta Conservatives will lead to some very interesting sound bites for the media. While the politics of hate has won the GOP elections for decades here in the U.S., Canadians usually don't take too kindly to bigotry.

Melon

 

[trevster2k]

I'm just pissed off that this would be more money wasted on another election. This whole sponsorship scandal is not news to me. What, politicians greasing palms of their buddies, surprise, surprise. Of course, in this case, no services were rendered. I don't agree with it but the corruption runs deep into the bureaucratical level of federal services and will continue regardless of political party in office.

On the other hand, I don't want Stephen Harpur as PM. I hope Canada is not headed towards the Italian system of new government's every year or so. I have faith in Canadians so I'm sure we will come out ok.

 

[jay canseco]

I thought you meant you were moving to the U.S.

 

[U2democrat]

I thought you meant you were moving to the U.S.

me too

 

[PopFly]

The Canadian Alliance...err..."Conservative Party" is pretty scary, but most of their power is still concentrated in the usual three provinces: Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba. They may be able to get Ontario to swing narrowly in their favor currently, looking at the poll numbers, and they certainly won't get Quebec, who will just swing more to the Bloc (although they really can't swing in that direction anymore than they currently have, really).

In short, the Conservatives may be able to squeeze into a minority government of their own, but I predict it would collapse even faster than a Liberal minority government, because if the Liberals can't get along with the NDP and the Bloc, the Conservatives certainly won't be able to.

This is exactly accurate....the best the Conservatives can do is to get their own minority, if that. Frankly, I think that the Liberals will still probably win a general election, since even with all of the scandal they're still about 50-50 with the Conservatives in the general poll. Actually, I saw one interesting poll in the paper the other day saying that when asked the question of 'Who would be the better PM?' Paul Martin got 44% to Harper's mid-twenties percentage. Maybe the problem is that the Conservative party needs a new figurehead, more than anything the Liberals do.

 

[dandy]

our local cbc radio has a call in show on in the morning, and you can guess what the topic of conversation was this morning. a rather disgruntled man called in and said that it's not that he doesn't care about the corruption involved with the sponsorship scandal, but that he prefers paul martin's corrupt government to steven harper as prime minister.

i must say that i wholeheartedly agree.

 

[GibsonGirl]

a rather disgruntled man called in and said that it's not that he doesn't care about the corruption involved with the sponsorship scandal, but that he prefers paul martin's corrupt government to steven harper as prime minister.

i must say that i wholeheartedly agree.

As do I. Stephen Harper is bad news, no matter which way you look at it. The day he becomes PM will be a very unsettling day for Canada indeed.

 

[ladywithspinninghead]

I really hope Canadians don`t punish Paul Martin and the entire Liberal party for this scandal. It`s sounding more and more like it was confined to a few bad apples and not anything too widespread amongst the party.


I don`t believe the Conservatives could win an election - I think Canadians will see through their opportunism (especially Ontarians who remain very apprehensive of Harper). I think Paul Martin was right last night in suggesting that we wait until the outcome of the Gomery Commission before going ahead with an election and according to most polls, Canadians tend to agree with this.

 

[kobayashi]

im not as confident as the rest of you that the conservatives will be wholly unable to make inroads in ontario to the extent that they could secure a solid minority and perhaps creep into majority territory.

combine that with a quebec dominated by the bloc and there will be very little stability in canada.

 

[Judah]

What i'm peed off about most is how this may delay the same-sex legislation bill (not to mention the legislation on marijuana laws). If Conservatives come in, say goodbye to both of those for a while.

 

[anitram]

The only difference between the Liberals and the other parties is that they had the misfortune of getting caught stealing public money. That's all.

An election is a huge waste of money, but I guess it's coming.

It will be a cold day in hell before I vote for the Conservatives, but I have not been voting for the Liberals nor will I in the next election. NDP voter here, even if my riding is hopeless.

 

[bonoman]

I'd never vote conservative, never, and im from ALBERTA!

I've seen what conservative gov't do, their attitydes towards the less fortunate it the worst.

I'm an NDP voter and hopefully the NDP will be the big winners out of this!

 

[Teta040]

And now every Conservatiuve will be screaming "even Bono is against him", just to add fuel to the fire. This is kind of where I widh bono would take time to do his homework...and pout his own remarks in context. Given the situation just now, those kind of remarks might better have been made in a private phone call. (see News thread.) He doesn't know what power he has. Becuase of him, Wolfowitz is coastng to the World Bank job, while his companion, John Boton, (who did NOT get on the phone with him), is getting grilled and his nomnation to the UN post delayed.

Damn it, he is so discreet about US elections.... why is he doing this now??? He is usuallu more clued in about this stuff.

I wonder if Bush secretly instigated this thing, just to get the Liberals out of power, just to make US drug companies happy...Harper, I sense, might be less sympaythetic to Americans buying cheap Candian prescription drugs. Among other issues. Heck, maybe Pfitzer is secretly funding this...

 

[dandy]

 

[Badyouken]

Canada is indeed in a very difficult position these days.

The Liberals have governed for too long and are corrupt. But so are the other parties.

Should we punish the Liberals? I think so. The problem is that no other party can expect to win, really. At least not with Harper as leader of the Conservatives.

I'm from Québec and I can't relate AT ALL with Harper. And neither can most Québécois. His social stance is the opposite of ours and the man doesn't speak French all that well. It is impossible to have a majority government without at least some support in Québec. And Harper's Conservatives will never get support here. Mulroney did. But Harper won't.

So the best they can do is get a minority government that will fall even faster than the Liberal's. But this will probably spark the independance debate in Québec, once again, since the federal system might look impossible to function... and the Québec Liberals (provincial party) are probably the worst government we've had since Duplessis.

Politics are very interesting these days, to say the least...
(I have more to say but I have to go...!)

 

[Badyouken]

I expect the Québec Liberals (Jean Charest & co) to lose the following elections; the independantist Parti Québécois will win and probably do a third referendum...

Alfonso Gagliano is predicting the end of Canada. I won't go as far; I believe Canada will remain whole but this issue is far from being resolved.

The sponsorship scandal brought the worst in the Liberals. They have to understand that we Canadians do not accept this kind of behaviour (I know it is unfortunatly very common). But letting Harper move into 24 Sussex is definatly not the best way to do that.

 

[dandy]

i read in the paper yesterday that paul martin is trying to set up a meeting with jack layton to drum up some support from the NDP.

it seems that the NDP could be the big winners out of this mess--many disgruntled liberals won't vote for harper, so that doesn't leave much choice.

i don't know if this is how things will play out, but i would be happy to see it happen.

 

[Harry Vest]

What Canada needs desperately is another party - the NDP, the Liberals and the Conservatives have been around far too long and are all way too comfortable. We need more Independent candidates that have NO ties to ANY party. As far as Bono bitching about Paul Martin - good for him!!! Martin should of done what he said he was going to do in the first place. It's not like Bono didn't warn him he would be a "Pain in the ass" if Martin didn't come through.

 

[lmjhitman]

I'd never vote conservative, never, and im from ALBERTA!

but you're from edmonton, so that's not too surprising now is it?

though i do agree with you. what the PC's have done in this province has completely turned me off voting conservative anytime, anywhere.

 

[bonoman]

See the thing is that paul martin isnt that 'great of a man' He's someone that still has his company registered offshore, which, until that ends, i'd never vote for him.

I am from Edmonton, and i know lots of people that are hard line conservative, and it makes me sick! how could a city like Edmonton produce any conservative when the majority of people that make good money (100K+) are working class! It really boggles my mind!

I'd neer vote liberal or conservative, either NDP or nothing!

They are the only party that are passionate about my values. The problem with the liberals is that they like the middle of the road and i hate that sort of politics! If your conservative then alright, i wont agree with you but those are your opinions! But dont vote for the liberals that couldnt give a fuck, they are middle of the road and tow the party line!

I'd vote for my rep. if he or she represented what i stand for, and usually its NDP.

I'm a union man through and through and believe in free secondary education, and lost cost living. If you meet those three concerns, especially the first one then you'll have my vote.

But if anyone is considering Pual Marin as a great man then your being close minded, i agree that Harper isnt any better, of not worse, but amrtin is no hero!

 

[najeena]

And now every Conservatiuve will be screaming "even Bono is against him", just to add fuel to the fire. This is kind of where I widh bono would take time to do his homework...and pout his own remarks in context. Given the situation just now, those kind of remarks might better have been made in a private phone call. (see News thread.) He doesn't know what power he has. Becuase of him, Wolfowitz is coastng to the World Bank job, while his companion, John Boton, (who did NOT get on the phone with him), is getting grilled and his nomnation to the UN post delayed.

Damn it, he is so discreet about US elections.... why is he doing this now??? He is usuallu more clued in about this stuff.

I wonder if Bush secretly instigated this thing, just to get the Liberals out of power, just to make US drug companies happy...Harper, I sense, might be less sympaythetic to Americans buying cheap Candian prescription drugs. Among other issues. Heck, maybe Pfitzer is secretly funding this...

Bush would sell his Mama to keep the drug companies happy.

 

[lmjhitman]

I'm a union man through and through and believe in free secondary education, and lost cost living. If you meet those three concerns, especially the first one then you'll have my vote.

But if anyone is considering Pual Marin as a great man then your being close minded, i agree that Harper isnt any better, of not worse, but amrtin is no hero!

bonoman. i'm from edmonton too, and a teacher, so i guess i'm *sort of* a union woman. obviously, issues concerning children and education, be it post-secondary or general, are close to my heart. ndp values do align closely with mine, but unfortunately their representation in alberta government essentially ensures that the voiceless people they stand for remain pretty much that: voiceless.

and don't get me wrong. i'm hardly endorsing paul martin or the liberals either, but he does seem the lesser of two evils, doesn't he? i mean this province is debt free, but that debt has been paid on the backs of the sick and the poor, AND the children in our education system. ralph klein has widened the divide between the haves and the have-nots in alberta and with stephen harper as prime minister, the PC's in this province will continue to do so, unabated.

ralph klein
stephen harper
conservatives

 

[Se7en]

conservatives

 

[lmjhitman]

 

[Judah]

bonoman. i'm from edmonton too, and a teacher, so i guess i'm *sort of* a union woman. obviously, issues concerning children and education, be it post-secondary or general, are close to my heart. ndp values do align closely with mine, but unfortunately their representation in alberta government essentially ensures that the voiceless people they stand for remain pretty much that: voiceless.

and don't get me wrong. i'm hardly endorsing paul martin or the liberals either, but he does seem the lesser of two evils, doesn't he? i mean this province is debt free, but that debt has been paid on the backs of the sick and the poor, AND the children in our education system. ralph klein has widened the divide between the haves and the have-nots in alberta and with stephen harper as prime minister, the PC's in this province will continue to do so, unabated.

ralph klein
stephen harper
conservatives

Nice to see some NDPers!

How insane was it that most of the mainstream media echoed Harper's message-box that the Martin Libs had made a "pact with the Devil" with regard to the Liberal-NDP budget compromise?

Right, if helping students with post-secondary tuition, calling for more social housing and assisting the most downtrodden in society is Satanistic, well then sign me up...

 

[dandy]

how's this for an explosive and unexpected development at the eleventh hour?

Conservative Stronach joins Liberals

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/05/17/stronach-liberals050517.html

OTTAWA - Belinda Stronach, the millionaire businesswoman who ran for the leadership of the Conservative party in early 2004, has crossed the floor to the Liberal party and will sit in Paul Martin's cabinet as minister of human resources and skills development.

She will also help the Liberals implement the recommendations in the Gomery report when it is delivered later this year, Martin said Tuesday morning.

Paul Martin welcomes Belinda Stronach into the Liberal Party.
"After difficult reflection, I reached a conclusion," Stronach told reporters in Ottawa. "I cannot exaggerate how hard this was for me, but the political crisis affecting Canada is too risky and dangerous for blind partisanship."

She also said Conservative Leader Stephen Harper is not sensitive to the needs of all parts of the country, and is jeopardizing national unity by allying himself to the Bloc Québécois.

"The country must come first," she said.

 

[kobayashi]

i was much relieved to hear this when i arrived at my office this morning. she has joined the party she belonged with to begin with.

her boyfriend (ex?) is likely unimpressed.

 

[melon]

Alfonso Gagliano is predicting the end of Canada. I won't go as far; I believe Canada will remain whole but this issue is far from being resolved.

I don't know if Quebec's support for the Bloc necessarily translates into support for separatism. I think it translates more into Quebec's disgust with the Liberals currently and downright hatred of the Conservatives.

Anyway, calling it the "end of Canada" is a strong word, but I do think that, regardless, Canada has never been a very united country, merely because of Canada's large territory and fairly sparse population. Whereas the U.S. is "united" perhaps by our larger, more interconnected population, it always feels as if Canada is merely a confederation of vastly different and generally isolated cultures that rarely mix. Honestly, I question as to whether Canada can stay "united" forever anyway.

Melon

 

[bonoman]

Melon your dead right!

How the hell can you understand Canada so well? You should move your ass up here! You know more then most Canadians!

This country is extremely seperate. The West hates the East, the East hates the West and everyone hates Quebec and Quebec hates everyone else!

I was at work today and one of the truckers was helping me fix a load that fell in transit. He was a bit off his rocker, typical Alberta Redneck. The shipment was loaded in Montreal and the guy went nuts about how the liberals are evil and how he wants to start a Alberta miltia and how he would "love to grab 'Jean', tie a piece of wire around his neck, tie him to the back of his pick-up and go for a drive" This is the type of shit I've gotta deal with! The best part of the story was when i let him talk for about 15 minutes and then he asked me who i'd vote for in an election. I told him that i wouldnt vote Liberal, but that i wouldnt vote conservative, he looked at me funny then i said id have to vote NDP. I thought he was going to explode. He pretty much stopped talking to me and then left.

This country is in dire need of a Liberal leader from Western Canada. I know that sounds like 'poor old alberta us' talk but it is the only thing that would ever bring the two sides of the country together.

Also, an update on the confidence vote, Harper has said that he will support the budget but not the amendments from the NDP, which is bad news for us NDPers.

Also, Judah, was at an NDP candidate form on Saturday evening, my good friend is running in Edmonton Spruce Grove. I'm giving him a hand with his campaign (if there is one), he doesnt have a hope in hell in winning, but he's going againist Rona Ambrose and would love to get into a few debates with her!
Melon, if you were to cast a vote in Canada, who would it be for?