So I guess Gibson is not the only Bigot?

[nbcrusader]

I did write

"that (many) Southerners are not Gay tolerant."

and


"Hicks would lose sales in the South if he were gay
or even thought to be gay."


do you disagree with these statements?

There are people who are not "gay tolerant" everywhere. Why perpetuate a Southern stereotype.

As for album sales, I am unaware of any statistics that sales by gay (or perceived gay) artists are lower in the South.

 

[nbcrusader]

I think if you polled Mississippi I think the majority would probably agree with JT, and I think they would proudly turn their backs until he "converted".

Any proof to go with that?

The three threads are beginning to paint an interesting picture. Do loud accusations of other people' sins helps cover one's own?

 

[deep]

There are people who are not "gay tolerant" everywhere. Why perpetuate a Southern stereotype.

As for album sales, I am unaware of any statistics that sales by gay (or perceived gay) artists are lower in the South.

Would Hicks lose sales in the South if he were anti-Bush?

Ask the dixie chicks?


"There are people who are not "gay tolerant" everywhere. "

yes water does sink to it's own level


the tide is higher in Missiissippi than in California

 

[yolland]

I think if you polled Mississippi I think the majority would probably agree with JT, and I think they would proudly turn their backs until he "converted".

Believing that personally is different from whether it's smart or acceptable to make such generalizations publically.

 

[BVS]

Any proof to go with that?

The three threads are beginning to paint an interesting picture. Do loud accusations of other people' sins helps cover one's own?

I've spent a lot of time in Mississippi. And they are very proud that they voted against gay marriage and don't tolerate homosexuality. You just have to look at their newspapers and local news shows to see this.

 

[verte76]

Would Hicks lose sales in the South if he were anti-Bush?

Ask the dixie chicks?


"There are people who are not "gay tolerant" everywhere. "

yes water does sink to it's own level


the tide is higher in Missiissippi than in California

You've got a point. They don't call this place the Bible Belt for nothing. My state's electorate just approved a law forbidding gay marriage in a referendum on Primary Day.

 

[yolland]

I've spent a lot of time in Mississippi. And they are very proud that they voted against gay marriage and don't tolerate homosexuality. You just have to look at their newspapers and local news shows to see this.

I'm not inclined to argue the point that homophobia is probably more common in Mississippi than most other states, but again, the acceptability of publically and sweepingly stereotyping people from there is another matter, because then you're implicitly endorsing the notion that being from Mississippi is in itself cause for suspicion. I've had people make all kinds of insulting assumptions about me based on nothing more than my accent too many times to not know what the consequences of that are like.

 

[nbcrusader]

I've spent a lot of time in Mississippi. And they are very proud that they voted against gay marriage and don't tolerate homosexuality. You just have to look at their newspapers and local news shows to see this.

I understand the process by which people maintain stereotypes and prejudices. I think the question is how do we get beyond them?

 

[namkcuR]

I understand the process by which people maintain stereotypes and prejudices. I think the question is how do we get beyond them?

But if a stereotype happens to be true for the most part, there shouldn't be any 'getting beyond' it, because to 'get past' an accurate stereotype is, in a way, to deny a truth.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

He (Timberlake) is from that area isn't he?

 

[yolland]

He's from TN, around Memphis.

From what I've read about this "incident", he mimicked a Mississippi accent (more or less similar to a Memphis accent, depending somewhat on which region of MS you're talking about) when he said the "Oh my God, I voted for a queer" bit. I've never heard him speak and have no idea whether he normally has any trace of an accent himself.

 

[maycocksean]

Yolland is right on target here. Go back and read her posts. She makes a lot of sense. And Nbc, you're asking good questions.

I'll be the first to admitt I'd be quick to stereotype all southerners in a certain way. Yolland's comment about her accent cut me to the quick. I'd never thought of it, but how much longer might it have taken for me to reach the high of level of esteem I have for her, if I'd heard her voice rather than read her posts.

It's not with any pride that I admitt my own struggle with prejudice in this arena, but I have to say Timberlake was out of line. He shouldn't have said what he said. And Yolland fairly and accurately called him out. And Nbc is right there is a double standard, that we all need to be aware of.

 

[maycocksean]

But if a stereotype happens to be true for the most part, there shouldn't be any 'getting beyond' it, because to 'get past' an accurate stereotype is, in a way, to deny a truth.

If we were talking about young black men instead of white Mississipians this statement would get shot down in a heartbeat.

 

[yolland]

Yeah, I don't put these kinds of assumptions on a par with racial/ethnic slurs or anything--I've been on the receiving end of both, and the latter are a LOT more distressing, as are of course homophobic slurs as well--but they are, at the very least, hedging into stupid-and-insulting territory, especially when said publically (and then reacted to with "Well it's true, Southerners really are like that"). Yes, I think most likely Timberlake is right about Hicks getting less support from Mississippians--and folks from his home state, Alabama, as well as what I gather is his current state, Tennessee--if he were outed (not much likelihood of that, from what I can tell from Googling bios about him), but it's tasteless to publically frame that the way he did--even if his larger point had nothing to do with homophobia, but rather the "pressures" of being an AI contestant.

Stereotyping is natural and inevitable from a sociological standpoint, but nonetheless all stereotypes are by definition inaccurate, and especially when you're talking stereotypes about people, the problem with employing them is that it implies uncritical acceptance that all individuals belonging to whichever category display whichever behavior. Get enough people freely doing that, and it will start to have adverse consequences for individuals belonging to that category, whether they've "earned" the collective rep or not.

 

[TranceEnding]

Isn't the only thing Justin Timberlake is doing/saying is seeking publicity for his new CD or whatever it is?!

 

[BVS]

I understand the process by which people maintain stereotypes and prejudices. I think the question is how do we get beyond them?

Some stereotypes are used to harm a certain race or religion...

But what if some are used to call out bad ideologies?

 

[yolland]

Being from Mississippi is not an ideology. Homophobia might be, but how would a prevalence of homophobes in Mississippi illustrate that it's a bad ideology? Timberlake could simply have omitted the phrase "in Mississippi," and the accent mimicry, and still have made the same point about homophobia and audience expectations. (Or were you alluding to something else?)

Also, negative stereotypes about religious groups very often involve imputations about "bad ideology," so I'm not sure you can make the distinction that easily. And stereotypes about people who subscribe to purportedly "bad ideologies" (for example, stereotypes about what Marxists are like) generally make a pretty poor foundation for arguments about what's wrong with said ideologies anyhow, though the behavior patterns these stereotypes allege (to whatever extent verifiable) may have some use as supporting evidence.

 

[sharky]

I think the Mississippi part is what is really being debated here -- the fact that Timberlake used that state in particular as an example. Frankly, it would make sense for him to use Miss. instead of another state because that area is where Hicks is from [well, Alabama but in reading this thread I thought Mississippi at first].

That being said, I think his larger point is a valid one and much more a commentary on the entertainment industry than on homophobia in the South. Artists like Hicks and NSync etc. are sold as heterosexual artists to get girls to follow them around under the assumption that each one of those girls has a chance with them. That's more of a selling point than the music in most cases. You throw in being gay and all that is thrown off. I think JT's problem was that he singled out one state, which made it sound worse. Frankly, I'm originally from Detroit. It's a liberal state and even they voted for a gay marriage ban. I think many parents -- regardless of where they live -- would act a little bigoted if they found out their daughter lusted after an artist that turned out to be gay. Look no further than all the adults who have voted against gay marriage is state after state after state, regardless of blue or red.

But I don't think JT's statements are the same as Gibson's. You can actually back up homophobia in this country with polls, statistics, etc. Jews starting all the wars in the world? Look no further than The Crusades to debunk that one.

 

[maycocksean]

The issue is not that many people in America are bigoted against homosexuals. That's not a stereotype, that's a fact that could be verified by statistics, surveys etc. It's JT's superior attitude towards those from the south that I have an issue with. It's the sweeping statement about "all people" from Mississippi that's the problem.