so...Hillary Clinton...or... Billary Clinton??? - Page 8 - U2 Feedback

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Old 01-29-2008, 05:56 AM   #106
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For differences in Presidency:

I think Obama will be given more time to feel his way, a more extended honeymoon. I think Clinton will be expected to have her ducks all in a row immediately (like a second-term President, she won't have a honeymoon)

I agree that Obama should be able to work across the aisle. I think that some of his supporters will be disappointed if they expect broad, sweeping change. I don't think that kind of change is expected from Clinton. From what I understand, Clinton has been able to work well on both sides in the Senate. She has a reputation for one-on-one charm that she doesn't have in public.

I think Obama will listen more. Clinton will tell. (Not one of my favorite traits of hers). But it appears to me both of them are analysts and they'll want to hear all the sides. I don't think you'll get rash moves from either of them. I think Clinton will move quicker if only because she had the luxury and inside information for eight years to consider how she would act as each crisis developed in her husband's presidency, knowing full well she was in training for a run of her own.

I give the edge to Clinton in foreign affairs. I probably give the edge to Obama domestically. I think Iraq is going to be a bigger burden than each of them has considered. There will be troop withdrawal and subsequent deterioration in Iraq that they will have to deal with. I don't think they'll be able to walk away from it. And like you noted, for both of them, the makeup of the Congress is going to be huge.

Maybe the biggest difference is that Obama is going to have to move from being a perceived statesman to a politician and Clinton is going to have to move from being a perceived politician to a stateswoman.
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Old 01-29-2008, 06:02 AM   #107
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Good analysis.
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Old 01-29-2008, 08:40 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonosSaint
From what I understand, Clinton has been able to work well on both sides in the Senate. She has a reputation for one-on-one charm that she doesn't have in public.


while this is, i believe, true, and it is one of Hillary's great strengths as a Senator, i think it's a much different thing to work behind closed doors with a Senator compared to working with a president. i can see Hillary-the-President being used as a pinata for the base, and that anyone working with her is going to hear it from the base whenever it comes time for re-election. "SENATOR SO-AND-SO SPONSORED A BILL THAT WAS SIGNED BY ... HILLARY CLINTON!!!!!!!!"

(cue dramatic political music)

a Senator could keep it all quiet. the presidency could not.
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Old 01-29-2008, 12:10 PM   #109
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I would think you'd have the same with Obama. I suspect that any of the candidates, either party, would be divisive. Perhaps it is a matter of degree. But I'm not sure that degree is significant.
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Old 01-29-2008, 12:40 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonosSaint
I would think you'd have the same with Obama. I suspect that any of the candidates, either party, would be divisive. Perhaps it is a matter of degree. But I'm not sure that degree is significant.


generally speaking, any cooperation with the enemy is going to inspire some animosity with certain elements of the base, but i think it's important to realize that the words "Hillary Clinton" are as scary to some on the right as the words "Dick Cheney" is to some on the left.

while i don't think that's at all an apt comparison -- she is far more moderate than Cheney -- i think that's the effect.
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Old 01-30-2008, 01:55 AM   #111
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I've been trying to think why I am reluctant to support Obama.
I've noticed in passing that the people here who plan to vote democrat in November but voice concern about Obama have perhaps one thing in common--an estrangement from a religious background. (I'm not making a case that that is relevant. I assume many people who are estranged support Obama as I assume many people who are religious support Clinton. And I wouldn't have any idea whether there is any correlation in FYM) But I was interested in the pattern and it gave me my answer. I don't believe Obama. Hope, faith, belief were the codewords of my estrangement. I believe what I see and not what I hear.

Not that that means jack here but it answered my own question.
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Old 01-30-2008, 05:22 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonosSaint
I've been trying to think why I am reluctant to support Obama.
I've noticed in passing that the people here who plan to vote democrat in November but voice concern about Obama have perhaps one thing in common--an estrangement from a religious background. (I'm not making a case that that is relevant. I assume many people who are estranged support Obama as I assume many people who are religious support Clinton. And I wouldn't have any idea whether there is any correlation in FYM) But I was interested in the pattern and it gave me my answer. I don't believe Obama. Hope, faith, belief were the codewords of my estrangement. I believe what I see and not what I hear.

I don't know if religious belief is the defining factor in supporting Obama. Certainly there are deeply religious people who don't believe Obama (see 2861U2 as Exhibit A).

But I do think you've correctly identified a pattern though. People either believe that what Obama is talking about is possible or they don't.

I got on my soapbox in the Obama thread, so I won't do that again here.

I respect your position on Obama, but then you know me, I'm always holding out hope that you'll find a reason to believe again.
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Old 01-30-2008, 06:54 AM   #113
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Oh, I don't think it's religion at all. (Although I think religious disappointment can make you wary when something almost has a religious/spiritual feel to it like a movement of hope). Perhaps it's more of a sense of how you begin to look at things. Maybe it is a loss of innocence, of idealism. The difference between the way you were taught to look at something and how your eyes and reasoning taught you something different and how you promised yourself you wouldn't look the other way again. At this point, for me it's show me and maybe I'll believe you. I've become a Thomas.

(I agree with you on some of the Republicans which is why I purely limited it to FYM who indicated they'd vote democrat in November. )

PS I really enjoy these discussions.
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Old 01-30-2008, 08:20 AM   #114
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However, if Obama is the nominee, I'm there.
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Old 02-11-2008, 02:10 PM   #115
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So is it Barack Obama or Micrack Obama ??????



Quote:
Michelle Obama Solidifies
Her Role in the Election

By MONICA LANGLEY
February 11, 2008; Page A1

On a conference call to prepare for a recent debate, Barack Obama brainstormed with his top advisers on the fine points of his positions. Michelle Obama had dialed in to listen, but finally couldn't stay silent any longer.

"Barack," she interjected, "Feel -- don't think!" Telling her husband his "over-thinking" during past debates had tripped him up with rival Hillary Clinton, she said: "Don't get caught in the weeds. Be visceral. Use your heart -- and your head."


The campaign veterans shut up. They knew that Mrs. Obama's opinion and advice mattered more to their candidate than anything they could say.

With the Democratic presidential race wide open, Mrs. Obama, a 44-year-old Princeton- and Harvard Law-educated hospital executive, is assuming the same dominant role in Sen. Obama's public life that she has in his private life.

Inside the campaign, she's been dubbed "the closer" because she often pushes harder to seal the deal with voters than he does. But worries about her sarcastic humor being taken the wrong way have forced her to cut back some of her public candor, she admits.
[Michelle Obama]

The role of spouses in presidential politics is evolving, from one of smiling wife to equal and visible partner -- complete with appearance schedule, entourage and opinions. With this, though, comes greater potential to be either an asset or a liability.

The Obamas present themselves as equals. "We're two well-versed lawyers who know each other really well," Mrs. Obama says in an interview. "We each think we're right about everything, and can argue each other into a corner." Friends and campaign aides describe them as a high-powered team built on contrasts: She's the heart to his head, the enforcer to his lapses, regimented to his laid-back, critic to his ego, details to his broad strokes, sarcasm to his sincerity, toughness to his cool vibe.

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Old 02-11-2008, 02:29 PM   #116
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But Michelle Obama is not a former President-if that is the only factor in the discrepancy as far as reporting about the relationships then I think it is fair. And she hasn't gone around making over the top comments about Hillary Clinton in the same way that Bill Clinton made comments about Senator Obama, not that I have read about. If she did they haven't been reported on-I think she did make some comment about not having to control her husband. (referring obliquely to Bill C I assume).

I think she definitely keeps his feet on the ground and doesn't kiss his butt in the way that many do I think it's natural for equal partners to influence each other in a healthy way. If he becomes President I see her taking an active role, it would remain to be seen how that is reported on and judged.
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Old 02-11-2008, 02:37 PM   #117
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A former boss/friend of mine is a speechwriter and campaign field director for Obama and she says Michelle Obama is the smartest woman she has ever met.
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Old 02-12-2008, 09:15 AM   #118
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Did anyone see Michelle Obama on Larry King last night? Unfortunately she was on only for the first half hour. I liked her candid answers and her class, I think she's an impressive woman (maybe even more impressive than he is). I have seen her before on CSpan giving stump speeches but that's different and tends to be the same old same old. I can definitely see why they work well as a couple.
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Old 02-12-2008, 01:11 PM   #119
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I will admit I haven't seen much from Michelle Obama but would like to hear more from her. Sorry to hear I missed what sounds like a good appearance on Larry King. Still, I am not completely convinced that the moving speeches incorporated with the typical political plans and promises are enough to convince me to give Obama my vote.
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Old 02-12-2008, 03:35 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally posted by Carek1230
I will admit I haven't seen much from Michelle Obama but would like to hear more from her. Sorry to hear I missed what sounds like a good appearance on Larry King. Still, I am not completely convinced that the moving speeches incorporated with the typical political plans and promises are enough to convince me to give Obama my vote.
Who else are you going to give it to? Hillary? That would be the typical political plans and promises WITHOUT the charisma, communication skills, oratory skills, and fresh outlook of Obama.

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