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Old 01-25-2008, 12:02 AM   #61
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Originally posted by Harry Vest
I'm just so sick and tired of the American dynasties that are BUSH/CLINTON/BUSH/CLINTON - What the hell is wrong with America. Why on earth can't they choose someone else...my God...really!!!
Perhaps Hillary should change her name back to Rodham.
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Old 01-25-2008, 12:05 AM   #62
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Originally posted by U2democrat
As usual, I'm with you 100% Irvine. It saddens me that it has gotten to the point where the Clintons really disgust me. I didn't want it to come to that, but it has because of their nasty double teaming.

What scares me is that if she were to squeak out the nomination, by the time it gets to the general election people are going to be so sick of the Clintons...including myself...and that will lead to another republican president. I admit, I am aware that I am a very partisan person, and when she/they turn off someone as dedicated to the Democratic party as myself, I know I am not alone in this, no good can come of a Clinton nomination.
Nicely put...much more polite than myself.
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Old 01-25-2008, 12:06 AM   #63
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This thread calls for some talking points from a drink-sodden trotskyite popinjay for war

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Old 01-25-2008, 12:14 AM   #64
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Originally posted by Irvine511




*his* attacks are below the belt?

(blinks eyes)

*his* attacks?
no, no, I mean the Clinton attacks. I might have loused up the wording or you just misunderstood or something. I can't really tell because I'm dizzy from realizing how much Clintonian ass I'm kissing.

anyhow (more betterer said):
They are somehow so below the belt that Obama, the wordsmith can't even manage to slap Hillary back and make it stick.

I'm saying, perhaps Obama isn't the heavyweight some think if he can't rebuff Hillary Pantsuit. Or maybe she's pretty sharp herself, on her own.

but it's a moot point anyways. You weren't trying to say she's completely hollow, just totally tied to Bill. I think she's a bit more independent than that but not enough to argue about.
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Old 01-25-2008, 12:17 AM   #65
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I'd say Obama's doing pretty darn well taking these hits.

Feb 5 will be a huge test, but I believe many candidates would have buckled to their attacks by now.
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Old 01-25-2008, 12:26 AM   #66
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Originally posted by U2democrat
As usual, I'm with you 100% Irvine. It saddens me that it has gotten to the point where the Clintons really disgust me. I didn't want it to come to that, but it has because of their nasty double teaming.

What scares me is that if she were to squeak out the nomination, by the time it gets to the general election people are going to be so sick of the Clintons...including myself...and that will lead to another republican president. I admit, I am aware that I am a very partisan person, and when she/they turn off someone as dedicated to the Democratic party as myself, I know I am not alone in this, no good can come of a Clinton nomination.


I feel like it's 2002 all over again and we're talking about going to war in Iraq. Once again something is so obviously a bad idea to me. . .I'm just flabbergasted more people can't see it.

We've got Democrats--Democrats, people!--disgusted with Hillary Clinton. People who WANT to like her! Can you imagine what it's going to be like when the Republicans enter the arena? Everything negative from the Clinton years will be brought back--the abortive healthcare plan, Whitewater etc. They will put all that in everyone's face. Can you not see it?

If it's the Obamamania that gets in your craw, then what about Edwards? I think he'd have a better shot against a Republican nominee than Clinton would. Don't misread the opposition to Hillary in this thread--it's not merely obsessive "Obama support", it runs deeper than that and to insist it's all motivated by misguided, idealistic hero worship would be a costly mistake.

That said, I'm glad the mods let this thread stand. It's certainly been one of the more fascinating reads in awhile.
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Old 01-25-2008, 12:27 AM   #67
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Re: Re: so...Hillary Clinton...or... Billary Clinton???

Quote:
Originally posted by melon


No candidate is going to be our Savior.
wanna bet?
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Old 01-25-2008, 12:34 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2democrat

What scares me is that if she were to squeak out the nomination, by the time it gets to the general election people are going to be so sick of the Clintons...including myself...and that will lead to another republican president. I admit, I am aware that I am a very partisan person, and when she/they turn off someone as dedicated to the Democratic party as myself, I know I am not alone in this, no good can come of a Clinton nomination.
U2Dem, I share the same concerns, believe it or not. I just think she can win it.

I think an Obama that crumbles in Jan/Feb at the first sign of any attack is an Obama that would hand the Republicans the White House on a silver platter. So if he comes through this, he's all the better. If he doesn't, did we really want him in the first place?

That's sort of my stance. Yes, I support Hillary Clinton because I think she can win. 4 more years of Republicans in the White House is just grotesque to think about. Even the fairly social moderate McCain wants to fight in Iraq until the end of time. None of those other Republicans would change anything.

Maybe Hillary doesn't lead the revolution this country needs or that Obama could have a chance to lead but it's better than the alternatives by a mile. Ultimately, I don't think this bickering among the Dems is all that bad.

The media will move on to the big story by the Spring.
Whoever the nominee is, Obama or Clinton, will be the big story.
All of this nonsense will be forgotten (hopefully). There will be plenty of "did you hear what McCain said about the Democrats being traitors"? and all that.

Long ways to go.
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Old 01-25-2008, 12:41 AM   #69
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I like both Edwards and Obama. How come Hillary doesn't mention that in 1964 she was a Republican and she supported Goldwater as president? Obama and I were in preschool when the march on Washington occurred. Both Obama and I weren't even born when Kennedy was elected. Air America radio is calling Bill Clinton the new Karl Rove. I'm a third generation feminist and I'm not going to vote for someone just because she is a woman. Hillary and Bill Clinton's actions show me that they have no character nor honor. The November issue of Vanity Fair has an article on how the Clintons back stabbed Al Gore in 2000. Anyone that back stabs their own friends to get ahead would never have my support. Plus where is my health care that they promised and the nation wide child care that they promised when Bill won? I hope that if she gets the nomination that Bloomberg jumps into the race. I'd rather see an Obama/Edwards ticket. One last thing Bill Richardson hasn't said who he is going to back for president, because he is too busy trying to get a health care bill for all New Mexicans passed in New Mexico. His dropping out of the race is New Mexico's gain.
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Old 01-25-2008, 12:42 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by maycocksean

We've got Democrats--Democrats, people!--disgusted with Hillary Clinton. People who WANT to like her! Can you imagine what it's going to be like when the Republicans enter the arena? Everything negative from the Clinton years will be brought back--the abortive healthcare plan, Whitewater etc. They will put all that in everyone's face. Can you not see it?

She's leading the national polls, what does this say about Obama? Maybe people have different issues outside of what the media is trying to forcefeed them. Oh wait...Chris Matthews just blasted Hillary and made another stump speech for Obama on his show....anyhow what was I saying?

There are people in the Republican Party who loathe the field.
they see:
Romney is too slick, northeastern and flip-floppery bop.
Huckabee is too hickabee, liberal and clueless on foreign policy. McCain is too old and way too soft on immigration. Giuliani is an outright liberal on the most hardcore social issues.

THEY ALL HAVE ISSUES and almost all of them are unknowns on a national scale.
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Old 01-25-2008, 12:44 AM   #71
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U2Dem, I share the same concerns, believe it or not. I just think she can win it.

I disagree. I doubt she can win and even if she does I'm not convinced it will improve the divided state of our nation.

Of course, I'd be very happy if I'm wrong on both counts.


Quote:
Originally posted by U2DMfan
The media will move on to the big story by the Spring.
Whoever the nominee is, Obama or Clinton, will be the big story.
All of this nonsense will be forgotten (hopefully). There will be plenty of "did you hear what McCain said about the Democrats being traitors"? and all that.

My hunch is that the big story the Republicans will be telling in the spring will be the same one we're hearing now within the Democratic party's camp. "The Clintons are a souless, ruthless, ambitious driving force. Do we really want people like that in the White House (again)." And so on. The term Billary will be used more, not less.
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Old 01-25-2008, 12:47 AM   #72
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NBC news showed a poll tonight that if it was Clinton vs. McCain she would lose. Obama vs. McCain, Obama would win. Besides its who counts the vote. At least in New Mexico we have gotten legislation for voter reform passed and our ballots are paper not black box machines. One thing the media never mentions all of the grassroots movements that are active in the Democratic Party across the country and are trying to take the party back from the DNC and people like the Clintons and their Wall Street backers. Remember Wall Street is selling America down the river. There is a class war in this country and the richest 1% have declared war on the rest of us.
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Old 01-25-2008, 01:10 AM   #73
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Re: Re: Re: so...Hillary Clinton...or... Billary Clinton???

Quote:
Originally posted by diamond


wanna bet?


what celestial body is he ruling?
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Old 01-25-2008, 01:12 AM   #74
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There are people in the Republican Party who loathe the field.


this is quite true. and i'd hope that the deep hatred for McCain felt by the GOP base would kill him as the nominee, and the anti-Mormon bigotry would kill Romney as well.

but is this what we want? another 49.6% president like GWB?
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Old 01-25-2008, 01:24 AM   #75
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I disagree. I doubt she can win and even if she does I'm not convinced it will improve the divided state of our nation.

Of course, I'd be very happy if I'm wrong on both counts.




My hunch is that the big story the Republicans will be telling in the spring will be the same one we're hearing now within the Democratic party's camp. "The Clintons are a souless, ruthless, ambitious driving force. Do we really want people like that in the White House (again)." And so on. The term Billary will be used more, not less.
It's a fair point.

We are not fractured on one issue or even a handful of issues, we are fractured on sheer idealogy. No person is going to fix this.
No party is going to fix this. The biggest chasm in our country is over the role of social politics. Why would one liberal be easy to digest and not another?

It's a supposed solution that defies itself. Moderates aren't acceptable to the far left or the far right.
That's about 40% gone right there. The best one could hope, I suppose is a Clinton '96-like victory. And we know the problems he encountered afterward.

I think Obama could have a chance to rectify some of the absolute polarization but the first time he appoints a Choice-judge to the SC, or tries to push a stem cell bill through. All the goodwill is gone.

I don't see this as cyncical. It's reality.
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