so...Hillary Clinton...or... Billary Clinton???

[Diemen]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: so...Hillary Clinton...or... Billary Clinton?

"He said several times yesterday that maybe he got a little bit carried away," Hillary Clinton said on CBS' "Early Show."

I would feel more comfortable that they were actually concerned about going too far if Hillary said "I feel he went too far" instead of this he thinks maybe he got a little bit carried away political half-talk.

 

[deep]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: so...Hillary Clinton...or... Billary Clin

I would feel more comfortable that they were actually concerned about going too far if Hillary said "I feel he went too far" instead of this he thinks maybe he got a little bit carried away political half-talk.

You did write more comfortable

At least you found a level of comfort.

 

[Harry Vest]

Now with Obama's huge blowout in South Carolina, the public disgust at the Clinton's as well as the Kennedy clan's endorsement of Obama...unless members of the Democratic party in the United States are braindead...we're finally rid of Billary. Besides, if you really want a democrat in the Whitehouse you have to pick Obama...Too many people dislike Hillary for her to have a fighting chance at becoming President.

 

[INDY500]

the public disgust at the Clinton's

I marvel that it's taken Democrats until now to understand what Republicans have known since 1992.

But of coarse one expects "the party of ideas" to arrive at the correct appraisal first.

 

[Irvine511]

I marvel that it's taken Democrats until now to understand what Republicans have known since 1992.

Of coarse one expects "the party of ideas" to arrive at the correct appraisal first.

and wait until Hillary wins the nomination (maybe). and goes after the Republcian nominee like this.

it will be positively Rovian. you might even say she has it in her to Swift Boat the GOP.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

Party of ideas?

 

[Harry Vest]

and wait until Hillary wins the nomination (maybe). and goes after the Republcian nominee like this.

it will be positively Rovian. you might even say she has it in her to Swift Boat the GOP.

You're giving Hillary Clinton WAY TOO MUCH CREDIT!!!

If Hillary get's the nomination it spells doomsday for the Democrats (and so it should)...if Democrats are stupid enough and can't see the potential momentum in an Obama candidacy then they deserve what they'll get...FOUR MORE YEARS of Republicans running the country.

 

[deep]

and wait until Obama wins the nomination (maybe). and the GOP goes after him

he will be positively taken apart -
you will say the Clintons and press did not work him over near enough, to prepare him

 

[deep]

the campaigning and primaries

should be like the entire season and play offs
before the Super Bowl

and the Super Bowl players should be tested and proven to be the most capable of competing with the best offense and defense to win


if your season consist of besting Alan Keyes in a Senate race,


and the playoffs consist of other teams and players and fans wanting and demanding that other teams be taken out of the competition to smooth the way for your guy to have a chance to play in the Super Bowl

well, don't be surprised if the other team uses all the tactics and plays that have won all the other Super Bowls




don't get me wrong

the half time is fun to see
if a regular guy can throw a football 80 yards,
through a tire

he gets a truck
not the MVP trophy

 

[INDY500]

and wait until Hillary wins the nomination (maybe). and goes after the Republcian nominee like this.

it will be positively Rovian. you might even say she has it in her to Swift Boat the GOP.

Karl Rove 'tis but a humble political advisor compared to James Carville and the Clinton "War Room".

 

[deep]

you only believe that because

there is no film on Rove

GHW Bush,
was so disgusted with Rove that he refused to have anything to do with him.

and he ran the CIA

 

[maycocksean]

the campaigning and primaries

should be like the entire season and play offs
before the Super Bowl

and the Super Bowl players should be tested and proven to be the most capable of competing with the best offense and defense to win


if your season consist of besting Alan Keyes in a Senate race,


and the playoffs consist of other teams and players and fans wanting and demanding that other teams be taken out of the competition to smooth the way for your guy to have a chance to play in the Super Bowl

well, don't be surprised if the other team uses all the tactics and plays that have won all the other Super Bowls




don't get me wrong

the half time is fun to see
if a regular guy can throw a football 80 yards,
through a tire

he gets a truck
not the MVP trophy

And then there are those who'd like to believe our elections shouldn't be a game in the first place. The "regular" people who have been tempted to give up on the electoral process because, hey, their vote, their voice doesn't count anyway.

 

[Irvine511]

And then there are those who'd like to believe our elections shouldn't be a game in the first place. The "regular" people who have been tempted to give up on the electoral process because, hey, their vote, their voice doesn't count anyway.

it is likely that much of the 45% who don't vote, do so precisely because it is such a big game to them.

 

[BonosSaint]

Forgetting the campaign and who can or can't win or personal taste in candidate, what do you think would be the differences between an Obama or Clinton Presidency and why do you think that?

 

[maycocksean]

Forgetting the campaign and who can or can't win or personal taste in candidate, what do you think would be the differences between an Obama or Clinton Presidency and why do you think that?

Ideally, I don't imagine there would be much of a difference--particularly in terms of their goals and what they would want to accomplish in office.

Obama, I have a feeling, might aggravate the Democratic base. He's a lot more willing to work with the Republicans then I think the hardcore base is going to be comfortable with. But I think Obama would be able to get a lot done and I think he'd be willing to "cross the aisle" to do so. The downside is that the kinds of legislation that get passed might be less than ideal, particularly those on the further left. The moderate voters would like what he does though.

I expect that Obama would have a highly seasoned cabinet with members from both parties. I think he would surround himself with smart, experienced people that would help make up for the much ballyhooed deficit in his own experience. I don't see him as the type to run about shooting from the hip or surrounding himself with a bunch of sycophantic loyalists.

Hillary Clinton, I think would have a presidency similar to Bill's--I doubt the Republican's in Congress would be as eager to work with her but if she continues to have the Democrats in control of Congress she would get more done than he did. Perhaps others with more knowledge can speak to how she's managed with bipartisan efforts during her years in the Senate. I see "big legislation" suggested by her having a harder time passing, but a lot of the smaller stuff like Bill passed would do well.

Clinton's no slouch and I'm certain she'd have an excellent cabinet and make smart decisions. She'd be a good president, though again, I'm not sure whether she'd do much to bring the country together (through no fault of her own--talk radio will spend the next four years lambasting her every move just like they did Bill).

 

[BonosSaint]

For differences in Presidency:

I think Obama will be given more time to feel his way, a more extended honeymoon. I think Clinton will be expected to have her ducks all in a row immediately (like a second-term President, she won't have a honeymoon)

I agree that Obama should be able to work across the aisle. I think that some of his supporters will be disappointed if they expect broad, sweeping change. I don't think that kind of change is expected from Clinton. From what I understand, Clinton has been able to work well on both sides in the Senate. She has a reputation for one-on-one charm that she doesn't have in public.

I think Obama will listen more. Clinton will tell. (Not one of my favorite traits of hers). But it appears to me both of them are analysts and they'll want to hear all the sides. I don't think you'll get rash moves from either of them. I think Clinton will move quicker if only because she had the luxury and inside information for eight years to consider how she would act as each crisis developed in her husband's presidency, knowing full well she was in training for a run of her own.

I give the edge to Clinton in foreign affairs. I probably give the edge to Obama domestically. I think Iraq is going to be a bigger burden than each of them has considered. There will be troop withdrawal and subsequent deterioration in Iraq that they will have to deal with. I don't think they'll be able to walk away from it. And like you noted, for both of them, the makeup of the Congress is going to be huge.

Maybe the biggest difference is that Obama is going to have to move from being a perceived statesman to a politician and Clinton is going to have to move from being a perceived politician to a stateswoman.

 

[maycocksean]

Good analysis.

 

[Irvine511]

From what I understand, Clinton has been able to work well on both sides in the Senate. She has a reputation for one-on-one charm that she doesn't have in public.

while this is, i believe, true, and it is one of Hillary's great strengths as a Senator, i think it's a much different thing to work behind closed doors with a Senator compared to working with a president. i can see Hillary-the-President being used as a pinata for the base, and that anyone working with her is going to hear it from the base whenever it comes time for re-election. "SENATOR SO-AND-SO SPONSORED A BILL THAT WAS SIGNED BY ... HILLARY CLINTON!!!!!!!!"

(cue dramatic political music)

a Senator could keep it all quiet. the presidency could not.

 

[BonosSaint]

I would think you'd have the same with Obama. I suspect that any of the candidates, either party, would be divisive. Perhaps it is a matter of degree. But I'm not sure that degree is significant.

 

[Irvine511]

I would think you'd have the same with Obama. I suspect that any of the candidates, either party, would be divisive. Perhaps it is a matter of degree. But I'm not sure that degree is significant.

generally speaking, any cooperation with the enemy is going to inspire some animosity with certain elements of the base, but i think it's important to realize that the words "Hillary Clinton" are as scary to some on the right as the words "Dick Cheney" is to some on the left.

while i don't think that's at all an apt comparison -- she is far more moderate than Cheney -- i think that's the effect.

 

[BonosSaint]

I've been trying to think why I am reluctant to support Obama.
I've noticed in passing that the people here who plan to vote democrat in November but voice concern about Obama have perhaps one thing in common--an estrangement from a religious background. (I'm not making a case that that is relevant. I assume many people who are estranged support Obama as I assume many people who are religious support Clinton. And I wouldn't have any idea whether there is any correlation in FYM) But I was interested in the pattern and it gave me my answer. I don't believe Obama. Hope, faith, belief were the codewords of my estrangement. I believe what I see and not what I hear.

Not that that means jack here but it answered my own question.

 

[maycocksean]

I've been trying to think why I am reluctant to support Obama.
I've noticed in passing that the people here who plan to vote democrat in November but voice concern about Obama have perhaps one thing in common--an estrangement from a religious background. (I'm not making a case that that is relevant. I assume many people who are estranged support Obama as I assume many people who are religious support Clinton. And I wouldn't have any idea whether there is any correlation in FYM) But I was interested in the pattern and it gave me my answer. I don't believe Obama. Hope, faith, belief were the codewords of my estrangement. I believe what I see and not what I hear.

I don't know if religious belief is the defining factor in supporting Obama. Certainly there are deeply religious people who don't believe Obama (see 2861U2 as Exhibit A).

But I do think you've correctly identified a pattern though. People either believe that what Obama is talking about is possible or they don't.

I got on my soapbox in the Obama thread, so I won't do that again here.

I respect your position on Obama, but then you know me, I'm always holding out hope that you'll find a reason to believe again.

 

[BonosSaint]

Oh, I don't think it's religion at all. (Although I think religious disappointment can make you wary when something almost has a religious/spiritual feel to it like a movement of hope). Perhaps it's more of a sense of how you begin to look at things. Maybe it is a loss of innocence, of idealism. The difference between the way you were taught to look at something and how your eyes and reasoning taught you something different and how you promised yourself you wouldn't look the other way again. At this point, for me it's show me and maybe I'll believe you. I've become a Thomas.

(I agree with you on some of the Republicans which is why I purely limited it to FYM who indicated they'd vote democrat in November. )

PS I really enjoy these discussions.

 

[BonosSaint]

However, if Obama is the nominee, I'm there.

 

[deep]

So is it Barack Obama or Micrack Obama ??????

Michelle Obama Solidifies
Her Role in the Election

By MONICA LANGLEY
February 11, 2008; Page A1

On a conference call to prepare for a recent debate, Barack Obama brainstormed with his top advisers on the fine points of his positions. Michelle Obama had dialed in to listen, but finally couldn't stay silent any longer.

"Barack," she interjected, "Feel -- don't think!" Telling her husband his "over-thinking" during past debates had tripped him up with rival Hillary Clinton, she said: "Don't get caught in the weeds. Be visceral. Use your heart -- and your head."


The campaign veterans shut up. They knew that Mrs. Obama's opinion and advice mattered more to their candidate than anything they could say.

With the Democratic presidential race wide open, Mrs. Obama, a 44-year-old Princeton- and Harvard Law-educated hospital executive, is assuming the same dominant role in Sen. Obama's public life that she has in his private life.

Inside the campaign, she's been dubbed "the closer" because she often pushes harder to seal the deal with voters than he does. But worries about her sarcastic humor being taken the wrong way have forced her to cut back some of her public candor, she admits.
[Michelle Obama]

The role of spouses in presidential politics is evolving, from one of smiling wife to equal and visible partner -- complete with appearance schedule, entourage and opinions. With this, though, comes greater potential to be either an asset or a liability.

The Obamas present themselves as equals. "We're two well-versed lawyers who know each other really well," Mrs. Obama says in an interview. "We each think we're right about everything, and can argue each other into a corner." Friends and campaign aides describe them as a high-powered team built on contrasts: She's the heart to his head, the enforcer to his lapses, regimented to his laid-back, critic to his ego, details to his broad strokes, sarcasm to his sincerity, toughness to his cool vibe.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

But Michelle Obama is not a former President-if that is the only factor in the discrepancy as far as reporting about the relationships then I think it is fair. And she hasn't gone around making over the top comments about Hillary Clinton in the same way that Bill Clinton made comments about Senator Obama, not that I have read about. If she did they haven't been reported on-I think she did make some comment about not having to control her husband. (referring obliquely to Bill C I assume).

I think she definitely keeps his feet on the ground and doesn't kiss his butt in the way that many do I think it's natural for equal partners to influence each other in a healthy way. If he becomes President I see her taking an active role, it would remain to be seen how that is reported on and judged.

 

[U2democrat]

A former boss/friend of mine is a speechwriter and campaign field director for Obama and she says Michelle Obama is the smartest woman she has ever met.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Did anyone see Michelle Obama on Larry King last night? Unfortunately she was on only for the first half hour. I liked her candid answers and her class, I think she's an impressive woman (maybe even more impressive than he is). I have seen her before on CSpan giving stump speeches but that's different and tends to be the same old same old. I can definitely see why they work well as a couple.

 

[Carek1230]

I will admit I haven't seen much from Michelle Obama but would like to hear more from her. Sorry to hear I missed what sounds like a good appearance on Larry King. Still, I am not completely convinced that the moving speeches incorporated with the typical political plans and promises are enough to convince me to give Obama my vote.

 

[namkcuR]

I will admit I haven't seen much from Michelle Obama but would like to hear more from her. Sorry to hear I missed what sounds like a good appearance on Larry King. Still, I am not completely convinced that the moving speeches incorporated with the typical political plans and promises are enough to convince me to give Obama my vote.

Who else are you going to give it to? Hillary? That would be the typical political plans and promises WITHOUT the charisma, communication skills, oratory skills, and fresh outlook of Obama.