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Old 04-22-2007, 08:41 PM   #16
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Originally posted by yolland

Do you really think he or any other rapper singlehandedly "entrenches" that sort of attitude towards the police in people who before listening to his music felt a high degree of trust in them?

How great the titillating shock factor of having Social Pathology Incarnate appear on his show would be for ratings, most likely. What audience is Cooper popular with?
When I think about it, do I "truly" think Cam'ron "singlehandly entrenches" that sort of attitude in his audience? I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. I do believe he IS an influence at the least and his music is easily accessible to kids. People are like sheep and will follow anybody and can adopt an irrational idea very easily as their own or reinforce their faith in idea when they hear similar ideas.
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Old 04-23-2007, 01:43 AM   #17
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Originally posted by trevster2k
I just watched this, man, that's fucked up.

Although, the snitch credo is not exclusive to rap music or black youth. I remember kids in school getting in trouble along with troublemakers for ratting out a misbehaving classmate. The teacher asks who threw that pencil which hit a classmate in the eye, no one says a word and no one comes forward afterwards either. People are always saying " no one likes a rat". We have legislation now for people who come forward with the truth for whistleblowers. Telling the truth needs legal protection in our society, wtf?!?. Big businesses and governments have this no snitching code too. Sad sad sad.

This is not just a Camron thing, it's pervasive throughout our society. Doing the right thing gets a person a medal these days when it should be the norm.
But it's only cause for horror when it's a black guy advocating the "no snitching" code.
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Old 04-23-2007, 12:47 PM   #18
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Originally posted by maycocksean


But it's only cause for horror when it's a black guy advocating the "no snitching" code.
That was exactly my point earlier. Snitching/ratting is frowned upon generally, cooperation with the police is rare in many immigrant communities (not singling out a particular race/nationality). What do they call that thing the cops have, the "blue wall"? When cops start ratting on their dirty fellow officers maybe they can expect a little more help.

Not sure that Cam's comments influence anything, I think the influence goes in the other direction. If he (or 50, or Fabolous, or whoever) goes around advocating snitching, will it influence anything? I doubt it...if anything he'd just be rejected by his audience. Not saying he said it to be more popular or to have more "streed cred" (I hate that term but whatever). But IMO it's a false assumption to think many people will be less likely to snitch because Cam doesn't snitch. At least not urban kids...maybe a few suburban kids who think they're thugs because they have T.I.'s CD I guess, but that's about it.
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Old 04-23-2007, 12:51 PM   #19
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Originally posted by maycocksean


But it's only cause for horror when it's a black guy advocating the "no snitching" code.
Exactly

Seems like some folks have never seen the Sopranos, Godfather, etc...
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Old 04-23-2007, 12:55 PM   #20
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Old 04-23-2007, 12:55 PM   #21
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Seems like some folks have never seen the Sopranos, Godfather, etc...


or have heard of Enron. or WorldCom. or Adelphia. or Arthur Andersen. or Solomon Smith Barney. or Halliburton. or Tyco.

or The Catholic Church.
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Old 04-23-2007, 01:02 PM   #22
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or have heard of Enron. or WorldCom. or Adelphia. or Arthur Andersen. or Solomon Smith Barney. or Halliburton. or Tyco.

or The Catholic Church.
Very true...
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Old 04-23-2007, 01:20 PM   #23
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I blame Al Sharpton...
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Old 04-23-2007, 02:44 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
or have heard of Enron. or WorldCom. or Adelphia. or Arthur Andersen. or Solomon Smith Barney. or Halliburton. or Tyco.

or The Catholic Church.
Can you say this about those organizations, though?
Quote:
"I work in communities where the clearance rate for homicides has gone into the single digits," says Kennedy. The national rate for homicide clearance is about 60 percent.
I do see this as a serious problem--I just don't think what some rapper says has much of any illumination to offer; distrust of the police and valorization of not cooperating with them is a much bigger problem than Cam'ron. And I think you have to ask what effect Anderson Cooper's take on the issue is likely to have--was this a serious piece of investigative journalism devoted to uncovering the roots of the problem, or an easy exercise in shocking the audience with horror stories of the 'pathologies' of the black urban poor? Did he talk about the history behind the concept of 'snitching'? How these "confidential informants" became a fixture of plea-bargain agreements through the "War on Drugs" to the point where 1 in 12 black men returning from prison have served as 'snitches' for the police? How Northwestern University's Center on Wrongful Convictions found this practice to be the leading source of wrongful convictions in the US? Did he bother looking up any of the many available "black community" spokespersons on the impact of snitching (and of the "community" response to it) at the major conference on snitches the ACLU convened in Atlanta recently? Did he bother to check the hip hop blogosphere for any worm's-eye-view perspectives on the "Don't Snitch" code, for example this or this? And, yes, what about the broader social context of the history of bad relations with the police in poor high-crime neighborhoods generally? Why not talk to someone like Michael MacDonald, whose biography All Souls on growing up in Boston's rough Irish Catholic Southie neighborhood is absolutely pervaded with that theme, including 'snitch' stories?

I didn't see the segment, so maybe he did do all that. But it's a lot easier to get people to be SHOCKED, just SHOCKED, at someone like Cam'ron's purported appalling thug values (which may well exist; he was shot at close range himself back in 2005 and refused to give police any details because of his "code") than to give your audience a feel for the bigger picture of the problem--and a sense of the diversity of perspectives within the affected communities on it.
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Old 04-23-2007, 02:44 PM   #25
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More proof that rap music does nothing but cause problem in society.
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Old 04-23-2007, 03:01 PM   #26
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Originally posted by Justin24
More proof that rap music does nothing but cause problem in society.


[q]Good Morning, this ain't Vietnam still
People lose hands, legs, arms for real
Little was known of Sierra Leone
And how it connect to the diamonds we own
When I speak of Diamonds in this song
I ain't talkin bout the ones that be glown
I'm talkin bout Rocafella, my home, my chain
These ain't conflict diamonds,is they Jacob? don't lie to me mayne
See, a part of me sayin' keep shinin',
How? when I know of the blood diamonds
Though it's thousands of miles away
Sierra Leone connect to what we go through today
Over here, its a drug trade, we die from drugs
Over there, they die from what we buy from drugs
The diamonds, the chains, the bracelets, the charmses
I thought my Jesus Piece was so harmless
'til I seen a picture of a shorty armless
And here's the conflict
It's in a black person's soul to rock that gold
Spend ya whole life tryna get that ice
On a polo rugby it look so nice
How could somethin' so wrong make me feel so right, right?
'fore I beat myself up like Ike
You could still throw ya Rocafella diamond tonight
[/q]
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Old 04-23-2007, 03:03 PM   #27
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Originally posted by Justin24
More proof that rap music does nothing but cause problem in society.
Horrible horrible generalization.

You sound just like my grandparents generation and what they said about Elvis.
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Old 04-23-2007, 03:20 PM   #28
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There is Rap and then there is Hip Hop. You do know that right. Kanye is more hip hop than rap. Hip hop you make more sense in your lyrics compared to those of Rap. Rap would be someone like Lil Jon or Ying Yang Twins.
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Old 04-23-2007, 03:22 PM   #29
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Originally posted by Justin24
There is Rap and then there is Hip Hop. You do know that right. Kanye is more hip hop than rap. Hip hop you make more sense in your lyrics compared to those of Rap. Rap would be someone like Lil Jon or Ying Yang Twins.
Yes, but it's still a horrible generalization. Sorry you can't see that...
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Old 04-23-2007, 03:25 PM   #30
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Yes, but it's still a horrible generalization. Sorry you can't see that...
Well if you read, I said rap, not Hip Hop. Rap is the one that is causing the dammage. If more political or social hip hop music came out, it would be different. There are only a few commercialized hip hop artists. Kanye, Common, and The Roots. We had 2pace and Biggie.
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